I decided to work on a more mainstream deck for today: Kingdra. This went 2-3 versus Jeremy’s straight Luxray GL LV.X deck. Here is the list I settled upon by our 5th game:
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Pokémon-19 |
Trainers-33 |
Energy-8 |
One thing I just noticed as I was typing out the Pokémon in the list…I forgot Unown G! This should probably play at least 1 to protect your Claydols from Gengars. You could either scratch a Claydol, Super Scoop Up, or Poké Turn for it. I also think a 4th PlusPower might be pretty money, I suppose a Super Scoop Up could go for that.
When I did play the minor amount I did this season, I had used Kingdra. This list is much different than the other lists I had played, but I thought it would be good to give this variant a try. The lists I used in the past all played around 11 energy, used Unown R’s and Poké Radar, or played multiple Warp Points and tech Blastoise + Dialga (from the combo found here).
I heard that Kingdra did well at Nationals using Crobat, Poké Turns, and PlusPowers, so I read the reports, elicited as much information from them as I could, and put this together. Everything is fairly straightforward. I originally had only 1 Night Maintenance in the list, but felt that I needed a second as Kingdra it is the only attacker in the deck and if pieces are prized or they are simply Knocked Out quickly, you NEED to get those seahorses in your deck to keep a swarm going. Two Night Maintenance just gives you improved odds of doing just that.
When Jeremy and I started playing, I assumed he was using Luxray/Infernape for some reason. He started with Luxray and I got turn 1 Kingdra and Claydol, which was a great start. However, I messed up by discarding Broken Time-Spaces I had in hand turns 1 and 2 with “Dragon Pump”. Jeremy was in actuality using straight Luxray (which I did not realize until turn 3), so he was able to get a Lake Boundary out which I could not counter. This enabled him to 1HKO my Kingdras with ease. He also was able to Power Spray my Claydol for 4 turns in a row, so my awesome start faded away and Jeremy won easily.
Game 2 I played super aggressive, meaning I dropped multiple Crobat G’s, Poké Turns, Scoop Ups, and PlusPowers during turns 1 through 4. This allowed me to Knock Out nearly everything he sent up those first few turns in one hit, so I got way ahead and won the game without any trouble.
Games 3 and 4 Jeremy was able to get his deck running like a well oiled machine and won the war of attrition. I had leads in those games, but Power Sprays, Lake Boundary, and late game cycling of Luxray GL LV.X via Poké Turn for pushover prizes did me in.
In our 5th and final game, Jeremy started with a lone Toxicroak G PL. I was able to get the turn 1 Knock Out via PlusPowers and Crobat G to add 30 damage on top of the 60 damage Dragon Pump dealt.
The deck ran decently I suppose. I honestly did not feel very confident in my draws for some reason. I used to play more Water energy in Kingdra, so it was a no brainer to use those for discarding. However with less Water in this list, my Dragon Pump discards took a lot more thought and I had to really contemplate which cards I could afford to discard.
Just a few strategy tips for the deck…
- Always “Dragon Pump” for 60 and 20 to the bench, do not do only 40 damage. That extra damage is key, so plan ahead which 2 cards you will discard.
- Hold onto your Cynthia’s Feelings against SP decks because they will try to KO you then follow up with a Power Spray when you try to Cosmic Power the next turn. If you stockpile a Cynthia’s in hand, you won’t be crippled by this combo.
- Play extremely aggressive with this list. Go for Super Scoop Ups on your Uxies and Claydols to use their powers more than once per turn to try and draw into PlusPowers and Poké Turns to get early KOs. Especially early on in the game, just go for it!
- Really think about which Pokémon you want to hit on your opponent’s bench for the 20 damage. Remember that SP decks will often use Poké Turn if you are close to Knocking Out an Pokémon SP, so be sure they are investing energy drops into whatever you are targeting, or target a non-Pokémon SP
I’ll probably work on this deck more later on as I want to see how it does against a deck that can’t 1HKO me. :)
You guys know the drill…tell me what you think and if you have any suggestions. Thanks!
Just one note: I played this vs rokman a couple games last night, and he recorded the games, so we will have some VIDEO of the deck in action (get stoked!)
I played Kingdra for the majority of the end of the year this year, and one tip that you mentioned at the end should be modified a bit…NEVER do the 20 bench damage vs. an SP Pokemon, unless of course that is the only choice. Even if the benched SP pokemon has energies, the opponent can always drop a Bronzong G and transfer those somewhere else, then poketurn. The best bet for the damage is on Claydol or Azelf, or any other starter they might use. Try not to hit Uxies either, as they’ll just attack and pop it at the bottom of their deck. Unless you really think you need to hit an SP with some damage to be able to KO or 2KO it, don’t do it.
I largely agree with Quaziko, although there are exceptions.
I haven’t played Kindra a whole lot, but I’ve probably played 100+ games against it, and I can confidently say it’s all about the speed of the deck. One of my good friends has been playing this deck since it’s initial release, and every time we’ve ever played, it’s all come down to what happens in the first four turns. Maybe this is just his particular build or something, but it seems to happen too often for me to think that.
Also, that’s great about the video!
I largely agree with Quaziko, although there are exceptions.
I haven’t played Kindra a whole lot, but I’ve probably played 100+ games against it, and I can confidently say it’s all about the speed of the deck. One of my good friends has been playing this deck since it’s initial release, and every time we’ve ever played, it’s all come down to what happens in the first four turns. Maybe this is just his particular build or something, but it seems to happen too often for me to think that.
Also, that’s great about the video!
I can’t say I’ve ever touched a Kingdra before, but this variant seems pretty fun if you’re feeling aggressive :] My only concern is that all of the poketurns and scoopups might clutter the deck, which might be why your discards were a bit tougher. I do want to see how it does against something not luxray though!
Yeah, I’m not sure I would pack 4 Poketurns, and I also don’t think Cynthia’s are needed as much, but as I said I haven’t played the deck, so I may be completely off base.
I would drop 2 water (I’ve seen this deck work with only 6, and 8 is a horrible number as it takes up deck space but doesn’t let you aqua stream still) and a cynthia’s for another uxie and 2 more crobat. 4 Crobat is amazing since you have the extra damage and also cards to toss with DP. I’ve never been a fan of the 2 luxury balls, even in here, so I would drop one for another seadra, as a 4-3-4 line is nearly a must for BTS and ssu to work efficently. Looks solid, and crobat definately makes kindra far more of a threat as he allows you to OHKO benched basics as well.
I don’t know if I agree with 4 Crobats, but I agree on the 2 Luxury Balls. I understand it adds consistency, but I’ve never been a fan of running them like that.
6 Energy? That seems really low to me…I’ve played my Kingdra deck with 9 energy. I’m curious to know how well a 6 energy Kingdra deck runs, did you notice turn 1 energy? 6 doesn’t seem like you’d get many turn 1 energy draws…
How do you find your starting hands were with only 10 Basics? Did you have any problems with bad starts?
How do you find your starting hands were with only 10 Basics? Did you have any problems with bad starts?
@brian: Sure, with 8 water energy, aqua stream is pretty much useless. The thing is, you need at least around 8 or 9 water energy to give yourself a better chance of getting the turn one energy drop, which is crucial to this deck getting a quick start. I wouldn’t be very confident with only have 6 waters, as you might want to run a different supporter than Rosanne’s IF you have it, and run the risk of using Uxies just to get a Water to use.
Also, since you’re discarding anyway, I’ve always liked 2 luxury balls, but I guess it’s more of a comfort thing, and you do need 3 seadras. 4 Crobats is too much, as you run the risk of starting it, a ruined card. If anything, run 3, but 2 seems fine.
I doubt the difference between 6 and 8 is that much to actually make it so you won’t open with a water energy that less often. And yes, you can roseanne’s and uxie for the water and still not worry about the t1 donk, because you gain more options to get that t1 kingdra, which is harder to do than get a t1 energy. If you miss the t1 energy drop, it hurts, but you should get it t2, espically with a higher uxie/other draw count. Once you get that water energy, if you run 8, you basically have 3 dead cards, where as with 6, you have about 1. The same thing goes with luxury ball. I’d rather take another uxie vs. the luxury ball, since you will need more cards and you can ssu up uxie for more draw. If you start with a crobat, how is it a ruined card? If anything, its the second best starter in the deck, besides horsea. :x With a bat start, at least you can retreat into the t1 KO, where as a uxie/baltoy start you can’t get the t1 donk unless you waste a ssu/warp if ran.
Sweeeet lots of comments for me to go through.
K dub: The Cynthia’s so money you don’t even know it, no way I’d go less than 3. And I really liked all the PokeTurns, they are pretty much PlusPowers but better.
Brian: I dunno if I’d go less than 7 energy. I mean you do want to have a decent shot of one actually being in your opening hand without having to search it out with Roseanne or hope to draw into it with Uxie or w/e. 6 is super low. I feel 8 is a good number.
And 4 Crobat G is going to be clunky because you are not going to have all that room on your bench. I could fit 2 comfortably, any more than 2 on the bench at once and you’re going to have problems. I’d rather use more PokeTurn.
The 3rd Seadra over the 2nd Lux Ball is a decent idea tho, I just like 2 Luxury Ball in this because you can discard the 2nd one easily and it doesn’t clog up your hand.
And Dave, 10 basics worked alright, this morning I was thinking about putting a Chatot in to help when you get Power locked by either Mesprit or Power Spray. I’m not too sure what to take out for it, maybe an energy.
Ah, fair enough. I’ll have to give this a try in Appr if I can get it fixed. Thanks for the info.
If you think about it, running less energy is BETTER. Nearly everything in the deck is burnable, making uxie insanely good at drawing cards. With 2-3 energy in your opening hand, your stuck drawing 2-3 cards with uxie. With 1 energy, you can drop it and then play down crobats and turns and set-up the ko, and then draw into your big kingdra/claydol line and actually get the ko. Opening with 0 shouldn’t be a bad thing unless you can’t get a t1 uxie, which running 2 means having to rosey for.
Just one note: I played this vs rokman a couple games last night, and he recorded the games, so we will have some VIDEO of the deck in action (get stoked!)
I played Kingdra for the majority of the end of the year this year, and one tip that you mentioned at the end should be modified a bit…NEVER do the 20 bench damage vs. an SP Pokemon, unless of course that is the only choice. Even if the benched SP pokemon has energies, the opponent can always drop a Bronzong G and transfer those somewhere else, then poketurn. The best bet for the damage is on Claydol or Azelf, or any other starter they might use. Try not to hit Uxies either, as they’ll just attack and pop it at the bottom of their deck. Unless you really think you need to hit an SP with some damage to be able to KO or 2KO it, don’t do it.
I can’t say I’ve ever touched a Kingdra before, but this variant seems pretty fun if you’re feeling aggressive :] My only concern is that all of the poketurns and scoopups might clutter the deck, which might be why your discards were a bit tougher. I do want to see how it does against something not luxray though!
Yeah, I’m not sure I would pack 4 Poketurns, and I also don’t think Cynthia’s are needed as much, but as I said I haven’t played the deck, so I may be completely off base.
I would drop 2 water (I’ve seen this deck work with only 6, and 8 is a horrible number as it takes up deck space but doesn’t let you aqua stream still) and a cynthia’s for another uxie and 2 more crobat. 4 Crobat is amazing since you have the extra damage and also cards to toss with DP. I’ve never been a fan of the 2 luxury balls, even in here, so I would drop one for another seadra, as a 4-3-4 line is nearly a must for BTS and ssu to work efficently. Looks solid, and crobat definately makes kindra far more of a threat as he allows you to OHKO benched basics as well.
I don’t know if I agree with 4 Crobats, but I agree on the 2 Luxury Balls. I understand it adds consistency, but I’ve never been a fan of running them like that.
6 Energy? That seems really low to me…I’ve played my Kingdra deck with 9 energy. I’m curious to know how well a 6 energy Kingdra deck runs, did you notice turn 1 energy? 6 doesn’t seem like you’d get many turn 1 energy draws…
@brian: Sure, with 8 water energy, aqua stream is pretty much useless. The thing is, you need at least around 8 or 9 water energy to give yourself a better chance of getting the turn one energy drop, which is crucial to this deck getting a quick start. I wouldn’t be very confident with only have 6 waters, as you might want to run a different supporter than Rosanne’s IF you have it, and run the risk of using Uxies just to get a Water to use.
Also, since you’re discarding anyway, I’ve always liked 2 luxury balls, but I guess it’s more of a comfort thing, and you do need 3 seadras. 4 Crobats is too much, as you run the risk of starting it, a ruined card. If anything, run 3, but 2 seems fine.
I doubt the difference between 6 and 8 is that much to actually make it so you won’t open with a water energy that less often. And yes, you can roseanne’s and uxie for the water and still not worry about the t1 donk, because you gain more options to get that t1 kingdra, which is harder to do than get a t1 energy. If you miss the t1 energy drop, it hurts, but you should get it t2, espically with a higher uxie/other draw count. Once you get that water energy, if you run 8, you basically have 3 dead cards, where as with 6, you have about 1. The same thing goes with luxury ball. I’d rather take another uxie vs. the luxury ball, since you will need more cards and you can ssu up uxie for more draw. If you start with a crobat, how is it a ruined card? If anything, its the second best starter in the deck, besides horsea. :x With a bat start, at least you can retreat into the t1 KO, where as a uxie/baltoy start you can’t get the t1 donk unless you waste a ssu/warp if ran.
Sweeeet lots of comments for me to go through.
K dub: The Cynthia’s so money you don’t even know it, no way I’d go less than 3. And I really liked all the PokeTurns, they are pretty much PlusPowers but better.
Brian: I dunno if I’d go less than 7 energy. I mean you do want to have a decent shot of one actually being in your opening hand without having to search it out with Roseanne or hope to draw into it with Uxie or w/e. 6 is super low. I feel 8 is a good number.
And 4 Crobat G is going to be clunky because you are not going to have all that room on your bench. I could fit 2 comfortably, any more than 2 on the bench at once and you’re going to have problems. I’d rather use more PokeTurn.
The 3rd Seadra over the 2nd Lux Ball is a decent idea tho, I just like 2 Luxury Ball in this because you can discard the 2nd one easily and it doesn’t clog up your hand.
And Dave, 10 basics worked alright, this morning I was thinking about putting a Chatot in to help when you get Power locked by either Mesprit or Power Spray. I’m not too sure what to take out for it, maybe an energy.
Ah, fair enough. I’ll have to give this a try in Appr if I can get it fixed. Thanks for the info.
If you think about it, running less energy is BETTER. Nearly everything in the deck is burnable, making uxie insanely good at drawing cards. With 2-3 energy in your opening hand, your stuck drawing 2-3 cards with uxie. With 1 energy, you can drop it and then play down crobats and turns and set-up the ko, and then draw into your big kingdra/claydol line and actually get the ko. Opening with 0 shouldn’t be a bad thing unless you can’t get a t1 uxie, which running 2 means having to rosey for.
Video of deck action?! CRAZY!
IT should be notable that this is one of those decks that benefits from 1 Skuntank G. Obviously not in the Luxray matchup you tested, but in general it helps, as it maximizes Kingdra’s damage, which is relatively mediocre late-game, a huge part of the deck (why it runs Crobat and Pluspower). Skuntank just adds another 10, which would be helpful in some cases.
Video of deck action?! CRAZY!
IT should be notable that this is one of those decks that benefits from 1 Skuntank G. Obviously not in the Luxray matchup you tested, but in general it helps, as it maximizes Kingdra’s damage, which is relatively mediocre late-game, a huge part of the deck (why it runs Crobat and Pluspower). Skuntank just adds another 10, which would be helpful in some cases.
Yeah yoyo I used Skuntank in a Kingdra list and it helped a bit getting that extra damage, especially being able to retreat out of the poison. Cresselia Lv. X is also amazing with Kingdra, it’s just that now it’s a lot harder to get out than other options…still I think it is a great tech alternative.
Yeah yoyo I used Skuntank in a Kingdra list and it helped a bit getting that extra damage, especially being able to retreat out of the poison. Cresselia Lv. X is also amazing with Kingdra, it’s just that now it’s a lot harder to get out than other options…still I think it is a great tech alternative.
I got the Tank idea from Fulop’s states report, actually. A retreat of only 1 and attack of only 1 is pretty good with Skuntank, since you generally run 3 or 4 BTS.
I got the Tank idea from Fulop’s states report, actually. A retreat of only 1 and attack of only 1 is pretty good with Skuntank, since you generally run 3 or 4 BTS.
Skuntank is totally a viable option dudes, thanks for reminding me and I think I might try putting it back in. I just don’t like how it can be a dead card a lot of the time, but the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages. I’d take out a PlusPower for it.
I would drop a Luxury Ball for a Baltoy. I know you can use Luxury Ball as discard fodder for Dragon Pump, but having 3 Claydol on your bench is just insane with this deck.
Biskitfoo, I don’t think the idea is to use 3 Claydol. I feel like the idea is to get more chances of drawing Baltoy/Claydol and using Kingdra to discard the rest.
I would drop a Luxury Ball for a Baltoy. I know you can use Luxury Ball as discard fodder for Dragon Pump, but having 3 Claydol on your bench is just insane with this deck.
Biskitfoo, I don’t think the idea is to use 3 Claydol. I feel like the idea is to get more chances of drawing Baltoy/Claydol and using Kingdra to discard the rest.
Skuntank is totally a viable option dudes, thanks for reminding me and I think I might try putting it back in. I just don’t like how it can be a dead card a lot of the time, but the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages. I’d take out a PlusPower for it.
RE Quaziko: never say “never,” because sometimes dealing Dragon Pump bench damage to a Pokemon-SP is just fine. During the late game, when your opponent has used up most of his/her Poketurns, feel free to either snipe to your heart’s content, or snipe in such a manner that the fourth Poketurn won’t bail your opponent out.
As for Plaid’s list, I’d take out three water and put in two multi. Since this is a Dragon Pump-focused variant, you can get away with an even smaller count than there is at the moment, and you can even make some of those Multi. Two Multi will help a ton vs Luxray GL so that you can easily OHKO via Claydol’s Spinning Attack (with a little help from Pluspower).
His list is solid, though. That one leftover spot from cutting the waters could be used for the Unown G he wants, a Baltoy (I kinda like 2-3 Claydol, though), fourth pluspower, a fourth BTS, etc…
lol I love OHKOing luxray with claydol. And yeah, putting the extra 20 on the benched sp is usually a solid play. If the bronzong/turn it later, then you still net the two damage, and you made them burn a poketurn AND now they have to wait a turn to level up (if its a luxray or something), meaning it’ll still have 20 damage if you smack it. And smacking the uxie a few times may force them to attack with it, meaning they waste the energy drop AND allow you to get a free hit on another, usually more important, pokemon.
Oh, RE Biskitfoo (Cameron): you won’t really want to have three Claydol in play…That is, unless you reaaaally needed to hit a Pluspower or Poketurn. ;)
RE Quaziko: never say “never,” because sometimes dealing Dragon Pump bench damage to a Pokemon-SP is just fine. During the late game, when your opponent has used up most of his/her Poketurns, feel free to either snipe to your heart’s content, or snipe in such a manner that the fourth Poketurn won’t bail your opponent out.
As for Plaid’s list, I’d take out three water and put in two multi. Since this is a Dragon Pump-focused variant, you can get away with an even smaller count than there is at the moment, and you can even make some of those Multi. Two Multi will help a ton vs Luxray GL so that you can easily OHKO via Claydol’s Spinning Attack (with a little help from Pluspower).
His list is solid, though. That one leftover spot from cutting the waters could be used for the Unown G he wants, a Baltoy (I kinda like 2-3 Claydol, though), fourth pluspower, a fourth BTS, etc…
lol I love OHKOing luxray with claydol. And yeah, putting the extra 20 on the benched sp is usually a solid play. If the bronzong/turn it later, then you still net the two damage, and you made them burn a poketurn AND now they have to wait a turn to level up (if its a luxray or something), meaning it’ll still have 20 damage if you smack it. And smacking the uxie a few times may force them to attack with it, meaning they waste the energy drop AND allow you to get a free hit on another, usually more important, pokemon.
Oh, RE Biskitfoo (Cameron): you won’t really want to have three Claydol in play…That is, unless you reaaaally needed to hit a Pluspower or Poketurn. ;)
i agree with your strategy…this deck is good…
i agree with your strategy…this deck is good…
I am liking this list Adam. I might steal some ideas and test a variant of my own Kingdra Crobat :P
Crobat seems to be used in a lot of decks… (possibly my next article) its getting popular and that 10 extra damage can make all the difference. And you can even Roseanne for it!
I am liking this list Adam. I might steal some ideas and test a variant of my own Kingdra Crobat :P
Crobat seems to be used in a lot of decks… (possibly my next article) its getting popular and that 10 extra damage can make all the difference. And you can even Roseanne for it!
I think it would be interesting to write an article comparing the relative uses of Crobat G and Plus Power. On the surface, they both do 10 extra damage. each has advantages and disadvantages.
Crobat G
– places damage (not an attack), no resistance, can choose target, has a good attack
– played from hand once, takes up bench space, needs Poketurn or SSU for repeated use, can be Power Sprayed, can be blocked by other Power stopping Pokemon
Plus Power
– can’t be stopped by Power Spray, benefits from weakness, doesn’t need any supporting cards (other than an attacking Pokemon)
– affected by resistance, must be part of an attack, one use only, some Pokemon’s attack and powers can prevent Trainers being played or force them to be discarded from hand.
I might have missed some points. I think there are definitely decks that benefit from Plus Power more than Crobat G and vice versa.
I think it would be interesting to write an article comparing the relative uses of Crobat G and Plus Power. On the surface, they both do 10 extra damage. each has advantages and disadvantages.
Crobat G
– places damage (not an attack), no resistance, can choose target, has a good attack
– played from hand once, takes up bench space, needs Poketurn or SSU for repeated use, can be Power Sprayed, can be blocked by other Power stopping Pokemon
Plus Power
– can’t be stopped by Power Spray, benefits from weakness, doesn’t need any supporting cards (other than an attacking Pokemon)
– affected by resistance, must be part of an attack, one use only, some Pokemon’s attack and powers can prevent Trainers being played or force them to be discarded from hand.
I might have missed some points. I think there are definitely decks that benefit from Plus Power more than Crobat G and vice versa.
Great idea Dave! I’ll write about that for next week. :)
Great idea Dave! I’ll write about that for next week. :)
I think its just best to play 4 plus power, 3 crobat, and 4 poketurns. :P lol but seriously, plus power is just amazing with uxie in all decks, and crobat is searchable and reuseable. Its a tossup in terms of deck space, but I would run both.
I would never play more than 2 Crobat in a non-SP deck, really.
Well I was thinking about sp decks, but in a non-sp deck, if you open with one you can rosey for another and uxie, drop both, attach, uxie, turn, win. :/ lol
I think its just best to play 4 plus power, 3 crobat, and 4 poketurns. :P lol but seriously, plus power is just amazing with uxie in all decks, and crobat is searchable and reuseable. Its a tossup in terms of deck space, but I would run both.
I would never play more than 2 Crobat in a non-SP deck, really.
Well I was thinking about sp decks, but in a non-sp deck, if you open with one you can rosey for another and uxie, drop both, attach, uxie, turn, win. :/ lol
Yeah I can’t say I’d use 3 either, I don’t think it’s worth the room.
Yeah I can’t say I’d use 3 either, I don’t think it’s worth the room.
I just joined 6p today but I have run a slightly adjusted Kingdra deck that had good success in my area. I run a 4-3-4 Kingdra 1-1 Claydol 2 uxie 3 Crobat G 1 Unown G with 4’s of rare candy poke turn ssu plus power 2 night maintenance and 2 expert belt. 4 roseannes 3’s of bebes and cynthia and only 6 energy with a 3 set of bts.
I just joined 6p today but I have run a slightly adjusted Kingdra deck that had good success in my area. I run a 4-3-4 Kingdra 1-1 Claydol 2 uxie 3 Crobat G 1 Unown G with 4’s of rare candy poke turn ssu plus power 2 night maintenance and 2 expert belt. 4 roseannes 3’s of bebes and cynthia and only 6 energy with a 3 set of bts.
Does expert belt make plus power and crobat unnecessary in this deck?
Does expert belt make plus power and crobat unnecessary in this deck?
I just wanted to say that you can only have 1 luxury ball in your discard pile.
No you can only have 1 in your discard if you want to activate another. So kingdra can discard the non-usable luxury ball into the discard pile.
I just wanted to say that you can only have 1 luxury ball in your discard pile.
No you can only have 1 in your discard if you want to activate another. So kingdra can discard the non-usable luxury ball into the discard pile.
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