Triple Feature: Testing Results and Arceus Discussion

Grab a bag of popcorn and snuggle up to this 3 part video. ;) Leave me a comment after you finish watching.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Reader Interactions

77 replies

  1. Randy Branch

    Yay! Great videos. Good sound and video quality.

    Expert Belt with SPs seems bad. You can’t attach Energy Gain (or Unown G). It doesn’t +20 to the bench either (like PlusPower).

  2. kwisdumb

    Shout outs forevaaaaa. (although it’s kay wisdumb ;))

    Tangrowth/Sceptile/Shaymin – I’ve also been messing around with this, although with Leafeon instead of Shaymin. I haven’t tested much, but my gut instincts tell me it’s slow. I love the idea of getting +40 HP (w/ Shaymin), healing 4 counters a turn (w/ Sceptile), and attaching 4 Energy per turn (w/ Sceptile and Leafeon). My buddy Gage is working on it too but I haven’t heard much from him. I really wanna make it work though.

    Arceus — I’ve never been a big fan so I honestly haven’t tested it, but I’ve heard almost nothing good.

    Spiritomb – I think Spiritomb will be best used against rush decks like Beedrill and the like. It’s definitely an interesting card.

    Gengar Lv. X – I’ve heard mixed things, but to me, all this card is good for is to give Gengar extra HP and the Level Down thing. I think Gengar SF is better than the AR Gengars, so I don’t see why you’d run them, and I don’t think spread really works with Nidoqueen in the format. I like the card, I just don’t see why people are being so critical of it when, to me, it just makes Gengar that much better.

    Garchomp – I haven’t seen Garchomp/Machamp be played a lot, but I’ve seen Garchomp be played with a lot of success.

    BlazeRay – I haven’t gotten the chance to play this much as I played LuxRay up until July and then switched to Flygon, but it seems pretty solid. Definitely something I wanna try out, but it seems like SP decks haven’t performed like they used to.

    Dialga G Lv. X – I definitely think Dialga is going to make a comeback in this next format, maybe not as it’s own deck, but definitely as a tech. Always been a fan of this card.

    Fossils – We’re testing those right now but don’t have any results yet, due to time constraints. Also, I think the thing that’s made fossils terrible is the fact that the basics are trainers, so it’s just that much harder to get them out. Also, I don’t believe Spiritomb would stop Fossils as they’re to be played as basics.

    Luxray + Expert Belt (Or as I call it, Gadget Belt) — I’ve been testing this and it’s been pretty successful. It can be a bit clunky, but I’m determined to make it work to at least some extent. Department Store Girl, Porygon Z G, and Poke Turn is the play.

    Expert Belt – I agree that it’s probably the best card from Arceus, for sure. I dunno how well it will be implemented in SP decks though, as Unown G and Energy Gain are pretty crucial in most of those.

    Great videos!

  3. kwisdumb

    Shout outs forevaaaaa. (although it’s kay wisdumb ;))

    Tangrowth/Sceptile/Shaymin – I’ve also been messing around with this, although with Leafeon instead of Shaymin. I haven’t tested much, but my gut instincts tell me it’s slow. I love the idea of getting +40 HP (w/ Shaymin), healing 4 counters a turn (w/ Sceptile), and attaching 4 Energy per turn (w/ Sceptile and Leafeon). My buddy Gage is working on it too but I haven’t heard much from him. I really wanna make it work though.

    Arceus — I’ve never been a big fan so I honestly haven’t tested it, but I’ve heard almost nothing good.

    Spiritomb – I think Spiritomb will be best used against rush decks like Beedrill and the like. It’s definitely an interesting card.

    Gengar Lv. X – I’ve heard mixed things, but to me, all this card is good for is to give Gengar extra HP and the Level Down thing. I think Gengar SF is better than the AR Gengars, so I don’t see why you’d run them, and I don’t think spread really works with Nidoqueen in the format. I like the card, I just don’t see why people are being so critical of it when, to me, it just makes Gengar that much better.

    Garchomp – I haven’t seen Garchomp/Machamp be played a lot, but I’ve seen Garchomp be played with a lot of success.

    BlazeRay – I haven’t gotten the chance to play this much as I played LuxRay up until July and then switched to Flygon, but it seems pretty solid. Definitely something I wanna try out, but it seems like SP decks haven’t performed like they used to.

    Dialga G Lv. X – I definitely think Dialga is going to make a comeback in this next format, maybe not as it’s own deck, but definitely as a tech. Always been a fan of this card.

    Fossils – We’re testing those right now but don’t have any results yet, due to time constraints. Also, I think the thing that’s made fossils terrible is the fact that the basics are trainers, so it’s just that much harder to get them out. Also, I don’t believe Spiritomb would stop Fossils as they’re to be played as basics.

    Luxray + Expert Belt (Or as I call it, Gadget Belt) — I’ve been testing this and it’s been pretty successful. It can be a bit clunky, but I’m determined to make it work to at least some extent. Department Store Girl, Porygon Z G, and Poke Turn is the play.

    Expert Belt – I agree that it’s probably the best card from Arceus, for sure. I dunno how well it will be implemented in SP decks though, as Unown G and Energy Gain are pretty crucial in most of those.

    Great videos!

  4. Adam Capriola

    Ug my bad for forgetting that you can’t have Energy Gain, Unown G, AND Expert Belt on the same time, lol. I do still think it could can be effective in an SP deck though when you’re using Bronzong G.

  5. Power Swing

    Great video and I’m working on some sort of flygon lock with mesprit ssu. It’s working out great.

  6. Power Swing

    Great video and I’m working on some sort of flygon lock with mesprit ssu. It’s working out great.

  7. alex brock

    Honchcrow doesn’t work with expert belt the way you think it does…

    Also why didn’t you use nidoqueen in tangrowth or use the SF tangrowth?

    • Adam Capriola  β†’ alex

      I did try both of those out actually, but forget to mention them.

      I originally had Queen, but just found it to be ineffective. I took it out so I could play a 2/2 Shaymin LV.X line. That made it a lot easier to get out. I’d rather have Shaymin out than Queen.

      Tangrowth SF doesn’t do enough damage. Bench damage is extremely weak at the moment and the 60 is just ok.

  8. Mach

    I don’t suppose I could get a synopsis of the main points of the videos, could I? I’m having problems with my speakers, so I can’t hear anything that’s being said.

    • Adam Capriola  β†’ Mach

      Sorry dude it’s like 20 mins of video and I talk about a lot of stuff, just try to access a computer that has working speakers.

  9. Mach

    I don’t suppose I could get a synopsis of the main points of the videos, could I? I’m having problems with my speakers, so I can’t hear anything that’s being said.

  10. Randy Branch

    Yay! Great videos. Good sound and video quality.

    Expert Belt with SPs seems bad. You can’t attach Energy Gain (or Unown G). It doesn’t +20 to the bench either (like PlusPower).

  11. Adam Capriola

    Ug my bad for forgetting that you can’t have Energy Gain, Unown G, AND Expert Belt on the same time, lol. I do still think it could can be effective in an SP deck though when you’re using Bronzong G.

  12. alex brock

    Honchcrow doesn’t work with expert belt the way you think it does…

    Also why didn’t you use nidoqueen in tangrowth or use the SF tangrowth?

    • Adam Capriola  β†’ alex

      I did try both of those out actually, but forget to mention them.

      I originally had Queen, but just found it to be ineffective. I took it out so I could play a 2/2 Shaymin LV.X line. That made it a lot easier to get out. I’d rather have Shaymin out than Queen.

      Tangrowth SF doesn’t do enough damage. Bench damage is extremely weak at the moment and the 60 is just ok.

  13. Ryan

    My testing has been having very similar results:
    Arceus is bad in all aspects, its slow, has low damage output, and has difficulty recovering dead stuff and energy. Tangrowth is SLOOOOW. Fossils are clunky (inconsistent).
    Gengar lvx is going to fill most of the holes in that deck. Dialga G does the same thing for SP. Luxray (AR)looks like it could be competative since the LA shinx has an energy acceleration attack.
    Everything else is mediocre to a point that its not really noteworthy.

  14. Ryan

    My testing has been having very similar results:
    Arceus is bad in all aspects, its slow, has low damage output, and has difficulty recovering dead stuff and energy. Tangrowth is SLOOOOW. Fossils are clunky (inconsistent).
    Gengar lvx is going to fill most of the holes in that deck. Dialga G does the same thing for SP. Luxray (AR)looks like it could be competative since the LA shinx has an energy acceleration attack.
    Everything else is mediocre to a point that its not really noteworthy.

  15. alex d

    I want to talk about Spiritomb for a second.
    Gengar/Machamp was not the deck to test this out. Spiritomb shouldn’t just be a throw-in to every deck. You should only put Spritomb in a deck that needs it to set up, like Torterra or Tangrowth, which are slow.
    The second thing you have to take into account is that you need to form your deck around Spiritomb if you play it. Instead of playing 4 Rare Candy, play 4 BTS and increase your Stage 1 lines.

    Spiritomb has its uses, but not as many as people think.

    • George Derr  β†’ alex

      I agree. Spiritomb would be a great add in to the SV Honchkrow! It is a basic, so it will add to the Riot attack damage and it is dark so Moonlight stadium gives Spiritomb a free retreat. This could give extra life to Honchkrow against many stage 2 decks that Spiritomb will slow down.

  16. Dave Hueglin

    I’m trying out a 2-1-1 Tangrowth line in my Darkrai-Parasect deck. Tangela has an attack that causes Sleep, which goes with the Darkrais. The deck tends to end up with a lot of damaged Pokemon on the Bench so I’m looking to Tangrowth Lv.X to add healing power and recover any lost Grass Energy. Utilizing a Lucian’s Assignment to switch Energies, Tangrowth’s Swallow Up gives a nice chance to hit for 120 damage. I am concerned that it will slow the deck down too much though.

    On the topic of Spiritomb, I agree with yoyofsho16, we won’t see it shine until someone actually designs a deck from the ground up that utilizes it. Moonlight Stadium should be included for free retreat. Obviously it would need to rely mostly on Supporters and Stadiums and very little on Trainers.

  17. Dave Hueglin

    I’m trying out a 2-1-1 Tangrowth line in my Darkrai-Parasect deck. Tangela has an attack that causes Sleep, which goes with the Darkrais. The deck tends to end up with a lot of damaged Pokemon on the Bench so I’m looking to Tangrowth Lv.X to add healing power and recover any lost Grass Energy. Utilizing a Lucian’s Assignment to switch Energies, Tangrowth’s Swallow Up gives a nice chance to hit for 120 damage. I am concerned that it will slow the deck down too much though.

    On the topic of Spiritomb, I agree with yoyofsho16, we won’t see it shine until someone actually designs a deck from the ground up that utilizes it. Moonlight Stadium should be included for free retreat. Obviously it would need to rely mostly on Supporters and Stadiums and very little on Trainers.

  18. alex d

    I want to talk about Spiritomb for a second.
    Gengar/Machamp was not the deck to test this out. Spiritomb shouldn’t just be a throw-in to every deck. You should only put Spritomb in a deck that needs it to set up, like Torterra or Tangrowth, which are slow.
    The second thing you have to take into account is that you need to form your deck around Spiritomb if you play it. Instead of playing 4 Rare Candy, play 4 BTS and increase your Stage 1 lines.

    Spiritomb has its uses, but not as many as people think.

    • George Derr  β†’ alex

      I agree. Spiritomb would be a great add in to the SV Honchkrow! It is a basic, so it will add to the Riot attack damage and it is dark so Moonlight stadium gives Spiritomb a free retreat. This could give extra life to Honchkrow against many stage 2 decks that Spiritomb will slow down.

  19. Power Swing

    Hey Adam, do you think it would be cool if the website could have a deck list support forum?

  20. Power Swing

    Hey Adam, do you think it would be cool if the website could have a deck list support forum?

  21. Ariadosguy

    I am liking these so far, but you made a mistake: Garchomp SV’s first attack does 40 damage, not 30 damage.

    I agree with yoyofosho about Spiritomb not being able to be thrown in any deck. Gengar/Machamp doesn’t need Spirutomb. And if a deck does need Spiritomb, you should base your trainer line around it (like yoyo said, more stage 1’s, less rare candies).

  22. Ariadosguy

    I am liking these so far, but you made a mistake: Garchomp SV’s first attack does 40 damage, not 30 damage.

    I agree with yoyofosho about Spiritomb not being able to be thrown in any deck. Gengar/Machamp doesn’t need Spirutomb. And if a deck does need Spiritomb, you should base your trainer line around it (like yoyo said, more stage 1’s, less rare candies).

  23. Alexander Stewart

    Well Arceus isent actually that bad :/
    While testing with it i usually get Call energy, Roseannes, and great ball and by around t3 you could have 18 energy in play thanks to the normal type arceus. Then with Ult Zone you can switch energy to the active and with the LVX that discards you could be doing an easy 100 each turn, and with belt your hitting 120 each turn!

    • Drew Stillwell  β†’ Alexander

      I’d think unown G is more useful on the arceus, due to machamp and all that jazz.

      Expert belt is probably MVP in this set though

  24. Alexander Stewart

    Well Arceus isent actually that bad :/
    While testing with it i usually get Call energy, Roseannes, and great ball and by around t3 you could have 18 energy in play thanks to the normal type arceus. Then with Ult Zone you can switch energy to the active and with the LVX that discards you could be doing an easy 100 each turn, and with belt your hitting 120 each turn!

    • Drew Stillwell  β†’ Alexander

      I’d think unown G is more useful on the arceus, due to machamp and all that jazz.

      Expert belt is probably MVP in this set though

  25. geoff

    just fyi adam, expert belt does not do extra damage 2 bench pokemon, just says to the defending pokemon or opponents active

  26. geoff

    just fyi adam, expert belt does not do extra damage 2 bench pokemon, just says to the defending pokemon or opponents active

  27. PokeChamp

    Nice review of Arceus, Adam! :)

    It was interesting because a lot of what you were saying I thought about the set myself. In many ways, we saw eye-to-eye on this subject. As for the fossils, the reason they are so bad is because you can’t search for them with Roseanne’s Research, and they’re so easy to counter. The best Fossil deck I’ve ever seen was Rampardos, and even that didn’t do terribly good.

    Keep up the good work on these videos, Adam! I look forward to more.

    Just curious, do you have a good list of Blazeray for testing? I myself would love to attempt play of the deck, but I don’t exactly know where to start on it.

    P.S:
    I am much in favor of Power Swing’s proposal. A deck support forum would be awesome.

    • Dave Hueglin  β†’ PokeChamp

      I guess if you really wanted to try and make a fossil/old amber deck you could put in Farfetch’d or Girafarig. They both have low cost attacks that search for Trainers. It still makes for a potentially very slow set-up though.

      Adam – the editing and deletion functions are messed up. It wouldn’t let me delete the comment above which had the code added in after I edited it.

      • Adam Capriola  β†’ Dave

        @Dave: Sorry about the edit function, other people seem to be having problems with it too. I’m not sure what the deal is. What code did it ad to your post?

        And so you know, your old post came up in the “pending comments” filter, so I guess it did get deleted? I’ll try to find a solution if this it continues to give problems.

        • Adam Capriola  β†’ Adam

          %20 is the html code for a space…hmm so when you edited the post and approved, the post here had %20 between the words? Or was it just while editing?

          Either way that’s weird, I dunno why it did that. I know I recently upgraded the plugin I use for the comment editor, hopefully they fix it. I’ll send them an e-mail and let them know the problem.

  28. Nice review of Arceus, Adam! :)

    It was interesting because a lot of what you were saying I thought about the set myself. In many ways, we saw eye-to-eye on this subject. As for the fossils, the reason they are so bad is because you can’t search for them with Roseanne’s Research, and they’re so easy to counter. The best Fossil deck I’ve ever seen was Rampardos, and even that didn’t do terribly good.

    Keep up the good work on these videos, Adam! I look forward to more.

    Just curious, do you have a good list of Blazeray for testing? I myself would love to attempt play of the deck, but I don’t exactly know where to start on it.

    P.S:
    I am much in favor of Power Swing’s proposal. A deck support forum would be awesome.

    • Dave Hueglin  β†’ PokeChamp

      I guess if you really wanted to try and make a fossil/old amber deck you could put in Farfetch’d or Girafarig. They both have low cost attacks that search for Trainers. It still makes for a potentially very slow set-up though.

      Adam – the editing and deletion functions are messed up. It wouldn’t let me delete the comment above which had the code added in after I edited it.

      • Adam Capriola  β†’ Dave

        @Dave: Sorry about the edit function, other people seem to be having problems with it too. I’m not sure what the deal is. What code did it ad to your post?

        And so you know, your old post came up in the “pending comments” filter, so I guess it did get deleted? I’ll try to find a solution if this it continues to give problems.

        • Adam Capriola  β†’ Adam

          %20 is the html code for a space…hmm so when you edited the post and approved, the post here had %20 between the words? Or was it just while editing?

          Either way that’s weird, I dunno why it did that. I know I recently upgraded the plugin I use for the comment editor, hopefully they fix it. I’ll send them an e-mail and let them know the problem.

  29. Adam Capriola

    Thanks for all the comments guys! And sorry for the mistakes I made in the videos, I am glad you guys caught them.

    PokeChamp: Ian will probably yell at me for this, but here’s at least part of his list. I don’t know the exact build, but here’s some of what I know:

    3/1 Luxray
    2/1 Blaze
    1/1 Garchomp
    1/1 Dialgo
    2 Uxie
    2 Crobat
    1 Bronzong
    no Claydol

    4 Roseanne
    2/3 Bebe
    4 Cyrus
    3 Power Spray
    4 Turn
    4 E. Gain
    3 VS Seeker
    1 Night Maintenance

    3/4 Call Energy

    I dunno it’s something like that, you can probably fill in the rest. :)

    •  β†’ Adam

      Thanks for the list, Adam! That will help me get some testing with Blazeray going (previously, all my lists of Blazeray would fail), to see both if my deck can handle it well, and also if it is a good choice for Cities (which I think it may be). And yeah, I can fill in the rest. :)

  30. Adam Capriola

    Thanks for all the comments guys! And sorry for the mistakes I made in the videos, I am glad you guys caught them.

    PokeChamp: Ian will probably yell at me for this, but here’s at least part of his list. I don’t know the exact build, but here’s some of what I know:

    3/1 Luxray
    2/1 Blaze
    1/1 Garchomp
    1/1 Dialgo
    2 Uxie
    2 Crobat
    1 Bronzong
    no Claydol

    4 Roseanne
    2/3 Bebe
    4 Cyrus
    3 Power Spray
    4 Turn
    4 E. Gain
    3 VS Seeker
    1 Night Maintenance

    3/4 Call Energy

    I dunno it’s something like that, you can probably fill in the rest. :)

    • PokeChamp  β†’ Adam

      Thanks for the list, Adam! That will help me get some testing with Blazeray going (previously, all my lists of Blazeray would fail), to see both if my deck can handle it well, and also if it is a good choice for Cities (which I think it may be). And yeah, I can fill in the rest. :)

  31. Joshua Hall

    Nice vid duuuude, I agree with most of what you said, as this set is largely ignorable other than expert belt. The only thing I like about Arceus is that it has no weakness, and thus can’t be countered as easily.

  32. Eelis Peltola

    Can someone explain the 3 VS Seeker on that list? Sure, you can get any of the 3 different Supporters(+ Aaron/Palmer, if played) out of the discard pile late game, but 3 sounds a bit too much…

  33. Adam Capriola

    You’re not playing Claydol, so you become totally reliant on Cyrus. That’s why you need so many VS Seeker. If you start with Cyrus or can draw into one with your Uxies, then you’re good for the game.

  34. Joshua Hall

    Nice vid duuuude, I agree with most of what you said, as this set is largely ignorable other than expert belt. The only thing I like about Arceus is that it has no weakness, and thus can’t be countered as easily.

  35. Eelis Peltola

    Can someone explain the 3 VS Seeker on that list? Sure, you can get any of the 3 different Supporters(+ Aaron/Palmer, if played) out of the discard pile late game, but 3 sounds a bit too much…

  36. Adam Capriola

    You’re not playing Claydol, so you become totally reliant on Cyrus. That’s why you need so many VS Seeker. If you start with Cyrus or can draw into one with your Uxies, then you’re good for the game.

  37. Saturn

    For Gengar right now, I see decks will have the 2/1/1. 2 SF, 1 AR, 1 LVX.

    I really want to try that Shuppet deck with the expert belt?

    For Spiritomb…I would imagine the whole purpose of it is for it to be a starter so people can’t KO you in one turn with crobat/honchcrow. It is really just good to have it out to evolve your pokemon quickly and use it as a sacrifice with lucky egg to get a head start.

  38. Adam Capriola

    I don’t like the AR Gengar, it only lets you move damage between your opponents Pokemon, and not damage off your onto theirs, which isn’t that great honestly. I think SF is better.

    Spiritomb is used more to slow your opponent down than to speed yourself up.

  39. Saturn

    For Gengar right now, I see decks will have the 2/1/1. 2 SF, 1 AR, 1 LVX.

    I really want to try that Shuppet deck with the expert belt?

    For Spiritomb…I would imagine the whole purpose of it is for it to be a starter so people can’t KO you in one turn with crobat/honchcrow. It is really just good to have it out to evolve your pokemon quickly and use it as a sacrifice with lucky egg to get a head start.

  40. Adam Capriola

    I don’t like the AR Gengar, it only lets you move damage between your opponents Pokemon, and not damage off your onto theirs, which isn’t that great honestly. I think SF is better.

    Spiritomb is used more to slow your opponent down than to speed yourself up.

  41. Kevin Kobayashi

    I see The AR Curse gengar just to mainly be used vs Gyarados.

    Stall with mime, switch to cursegar, hit for 60, switch to mime, etc

    •  β†’ Kevin

      Or better yet Spiritomb AR. They can’t rescue Magikarp unless they play Palmer or Combee SF. Mr. Mime is also switched out more easily. You can do this with Uxie as well but not as easily.

  42. Kevin Kobayashi

    I see The AR Curse gengar just to mainly be used vs Gyarados.

    Stall with mime, switch to cursegar, hit for 60, switch to mime, etc

    • Randy Branch  β†’ Kevin

      Or better yet Spiritomb AR. They can’t rescue Magikarp unless they play Palmer or Combee SF. Mr. Mime is also switched out more easily. You can do this with Uxie as well but not as easily.

  43. Adam Capriola

    Regice would still be able to switch Spiritomb AR out of the active spot, but that’s still a solid idea.

    I honestly don’t know how big Gyarados will be for Cities, I feel like its lost some steam.

  44. Adam Capriola

    Regice would still be able to switch Spiritomb AR out of the active spot, but that’s still a solid idea.

    I honestly don’t know how big Gyarados will be for Cities, I feel like its lost some steam.

  45. Ben Blahblahblah

    Expert Belt + Gyarados = Crazy good! 0 Energy for 110, with SSU to deny the extra prize. Seems awesome to me! As for the vid, I thought your mentioning of Dialga G was fairly epic. I have gone 5-1 this season so far with a Dialga G/Garchomp C build. It seems to be working perfectly!

  46. Ben Blahblahblah

    Expert Belt + Gyarados = Crazy good! 0 Energy for 110, with SSU to deny the extra prize. Seems awesome to me! As for the vid, I thought your mentioning of Dialga G was fairly epic. I have gone 5-1 this season so far with a Dialga G/Garchomp C build. It seems to be working perfectly!

  47. The Thunder

    I really like the testing results. But I think the Tangrowth should not be used for attacking but as a tech, you should use Beedrill GE for attacking and slap 3 Beedrill G on your bench for 120 damage.

    • Randy Branch  β†’ Luxbox

      Beedrill G is not “Beedrill”. Because he has a different name you would only be doing 30 damage. SP pokemon have zero in-game affiliation with their non-SP counterparts. For example you could play 4 Quagsire and 4 Quagsire GL in a deck.

  48. The Thunder

    I really like the testing results. But I think the Tangrowth should not be used for attacking but as a tech, you should use Beedrill GE for attacking and slap 3 Beedrill G on your bench for 120 damage.

    • Randy Branch  β†’ The

      Beedrill G is not “Beedrill”. Because he has a different name you would only be doing 30 damage. SP pokemon have zero in-game affiliation with their non-SP counterparts. For example you could play 4 Quagsire and 4 Quagsire GL in a deck.

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