Decklists for Alternate SP, Stage Two, and Georgia Marathon-Winning Concepts
ibiblio.orgWith only one weekend of City Championships left, my brother and I have been running through several alternative decks to play. We each have our reasons for hunting outside of the “big four” (Luxchomp, Dialgachomp, Gyarados, Vilegar): for me, it’s about finding a hidden winning strategy that I may have overlooked; for him, it’s recovering his season, and returning to his element and play-style.
However, the one thing that amazed both of us was how little variety there’s been in our metagame relative to how vast our card pool is. Want to change that? Here’s how…
Practically speaking, think of these as several mini deck articles. I won’t go into much detail about matchups, nor will I explain every card choice in-depth, but it should give you a good enough idea of how the decks work, and whether or not they would be good in your metagame.
For this article, the main goal is to consider some previously unconsidered decks; but beyond combating a stale metagame, and beyond anything pertaining to this format, the larger goals of this article are to:
- Understand why “good” decks fail due to metagame
- Show how an underdog can win a tournament
Even if these become outdated or modified-illegal, their general trends show us vital things about metagame, deck choice, and various rises and falls.
Part 0: A brief Aside: “On Rogue”
No, “rogue” doesn’t automatically equate to bad, or amount to an inflated sense of ego: as long as your deck choice is well-considered, and as long as you aren’t flaunting how gloriously unique you are, then it’s neither. Put simply, rogue is just when you go against the usual suspects, and run something different.
(And running something different has its merits, as shown by the World Championship wins of Tsuguyoshi Yamato, Jeremy Maron, and Stephen Silvestro. Besides, many famous archetypes over the years had to start out somewhere, so if you feel you have something great, then don’t lack confidence – play it!!!)
Part 1.0: Alternate SP Lists
We know Luxchomp…And we know Dialgachomp…Yeah, and we know Sableye, too. However, there are way more lists than that; way more ways to play SP. Here are just some of the alternate ways you could:
1.1: Infernape 4/Garchomp C
|
Pokémon – 18 2 Infernape 4 |
Trainers – 29 4 Cyrus’s Conspiracy |
Energy – 13 5 R |
I decided to introduce this deck first because it’s, admittedly, the least rogue of them all. In fact, it’s really just a standard Luxchomp, only without Promocroak, Luxray, or their corresponding energy, and instead Infernapes/Fire.
Yeah, it’s like Luxchomp…Big deal. Now what would possibly make it better?
For starters, its strength in the mirror is nearly-unmatched. 3-1 Garchomp, 1 Ambipom, and 1 Dragonite FB is gross enough already in that game, but with a surefire way to 1HKO every possible opposing SP attacker, the only thing that could stand in your way is Mewtwo LV.X.
Secondly, it’s a nice way to adjust to a metagame that’s turned against Luxchomp. If Steelix is or is about to get big in your area, then having any fire-focused attacker could be good; if surprisingly good stage two lists with a lot of inevitability are popping up, then maybe an early game spread option with Split Bomb could also help, alongside the beastly strength of a Fire Spin accentuated by Flash Bites.
Why hasn’t this been played as much?
While the Machamp matchup remains more than bearable, Gyarados is very rough. Granted, Garchomp is enough to keep this from being a complete auto-loss , and Split Bomb offers some easy options when they’re stuck at the Magikarp level…But this is certainly worse than the option to fry everything with Luxray GL and Luxray GL LV.X.
Has this done well before?
Yes…Or variations thereof. Previously, it won Nationals 2009 in the form of Luxray GL/Infernape 4/Stark Mountain/Rayquaza LA, and made a decent showing at Nationals 2010 in the form of Luxray GL/Garchomp C/Infernape 4.
However, the actual Infernape 4/Garchomp C deck recently won a competitive City Championship in San Antonio, TX, beating a Gyarados in the process. While its victory over Gyarados is an anomaly to me, I’m sure this could see a win in the right metagame.
1.2: “SP Toolbox”
Since the release of SP, every non-Dialga, non-Palkia, or non-Luxape variant of the deck was known as “Toolbox.” Put simply, this term is now just a catch-all phrase for every atypical SP build…But to fit the essence of the word best, I felt like this unusual variant best matched the concept of what it means for something to be a “toolbox”: a deck with a ton of options!
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Pokémon – 19 4 Weavile G |
Trainers – 29 4 Cyrus’s Conspiracy |
Energy – 12 4 Special D |
How on Earth could an SP deck win without Garchomp?
The concept behind the “toolbox” is to just rush with a hard-hitting Weavile, and use your vast range of tech cards when appropriate. Since Weavile’s damage output is reliant on how many Pokémon SP you have in play, we run a very minimal amount of non-Pokémon SP: just one Uxie and Azelf, to be played only when absolutely necessary.
Continuing on with the unorthodoxy , I’ve included just about every lesser-played SP tech in the format…And with actual reason: Roserade GL to allow for late game lock opportunities, Ambipom for the added Garchomp advantage/donks/efficient 1HKOs, Toxicroak G Platinum and Lucario GL to give you a non-Uxie edge over Machamp, Honchkrow G for added sniping advantages against Gyarados, Stadiums/Skuntank to further your Weavile’s lethality, and…Regigigas FB.
(What the?)
Well, not a set-in-stone Gigas FB, but just the means to do it. Basically, it serves the same function as Dragonite FB, but for one more energy, you get the power of Mach Blow versus _every_ deck in the format, and not just SP.
The sweet thing about this attacker in a deck like toolbox is that it’s more or less practical only in here, since your Rainbow Lariat potential almost never caps past 80 in Garchomp variants. All in all though, you may still find it impractical, so the means for a safer matchup versus regular SP are found in Dragonite FB/Houndoom G.
Has this done well before?
In the past it has, having won several tournaments around Platinum’s release, scored numerous top cuts at U.S. Nationals and Worlds, and even a more recent win at the 2009-2010 season’s Georgia marathon. However, due to the proliferation of high-quality Garchomp C lists over the past year, this thing has all but fallen off the map.
While I wouldn’t be as quick to recommend this as I would Infernape/Garchomp, it does have its place in the right metagame due to a decent Machamp game, an overwhelmingly good Gengar game (again sans mewtwo – this deck might need a counter…), a bearable Gyarados matchup, and a great alternative way to approach the usual SP rat race.
All well and good, but why are people not willing to play this?
Weavile G as a main attacker is just weird for some; for others, they feel that the damage is hugely outclassed by the normal SP mirror, which can 1HKO just about everything in this deck with Garchomp C LV.X, 1HKO much of it with Promocroak’s Poison Revenge, or Dragonite FB’s Mach Blow. If left unchecked for more than one turn, any of these three attackers could make a toolbox player’s life a living nightmare. In essence, the gist to a detractor’s argument is that the attack is just very inefficient for what it does.
Also, while you keep your Gyarados game somewhat competitive due to counter stadiums, Skuntank, and Honchkrow G, the fact of the matter is that you have several low HP basics. And what does Gyarados like?
Easy targets – that’s what. So tread cautiously with an SP this of this kind.
Part 2.0: Stage Two Decks (that could possibly compete in a speed format)
It’s amazing how things have changed, but essentially, almost any deck based around stage twos is forced to do one of two things: slow themselves down in order to drag SP down with them (Vileplume/Spiritomb), or inject themselves with unprecedented amounts of consistency (high counts on nearly every staple search card, at least 2-3 draw cards, and high numbers of BTS/Rare Candy). When formulated into basic decklist structure, these usually amount to either this…
pokemon-paradijs.com2 Oddish
2 Gloom
2 Vileplume
4 Spiritomb
[INSERT REST OF DECK HERE]
…Or this…
3-4 Pokémon Communication
3-4 Bebe’s
3-4 Pokémon Collector
6-8 Broken Time-Space and/or Rare Candy (preferred count is 7-8)
1 Luxury Ball
[INSERT REST OF DECK HERE]
So in a weird mutation, we find that even unorthodox rogue decks often have a certain staleness to them. However, these are simply the engines of the car; not the bells, whistles, and hardware that make Fords different from Mitsubishis, Playstations different from Nintendos, etc.
Historically, we recognize that this has gone on in every format: in 2003-2004, many off-the-wall rogues included a Delcatty RSH/Magneton DR draw engine to allow for constant “Energy Drawing” without consequence; in 2004-2005 and 2005-2006, countless decks could run 4 Swoop! Teleporter in order to assure a fast stage one attacker; and in the very recent formats of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010, Claydol made it relatively easy for nearly any deck to function without too much consistency hiccupping.
This format is no different, as I’ve found either one or the other to apply to nearly EVERY good Stage Two decklist I’ve seen, with the only common exceptions being Magnezone (built-in super consistency) and Tyranitar (hybrid between Spiritomb and speed plays).
I’ll be using three deck concepts to show off this principle in action: Dusknoir SF for Vileplume/Spiritomb, Garchomp SV for high consistency; and Jumpluff for both.
2.1: Dusknoir/Vileplume
|
Pokémon – 26 4 Spiritomb AR |
Trainers – 20 4 Bebe’s Search |
Energy – 14 |
*Note: you might consider Rainbow energy in this list if you’d like to splash in a tech attacker, or just to make Damage Even more versatile than it already is.
**Side note: it’s possible to run this deck without Vileplume! I’m going to keep specifics to just the ‘Plume variant, but I wanted to let you know that it is indeed a viable choice in many ways.
What makes this deck hopeful?
The general build is very similar to Vilegar, and the featured list is virtually identical to my list as referenced in Vilegar VIP. However, this deck has several notable edges over Vilegar:
*In general, the Shadow Command/Damage Even combo allows you to have way more control over your “damage” (damage counter) output than Vilegar does, which conditionally relies on Poké-Powers and Trainers in opponents’ hands.
*Also in general, Dusknoir is far less susceptible to bad hands or poor mid-games due to Shadow Command, a prime form of card draw (in addition to its status as the Damage Even trigger). This makes it one of the more reliable Vileplume variants out there.
*Versus Gyarados, a Vileplume in play together with Night Spin makes it nearly impossible for their 5-7 energy card lists to break through for a 1HKO. Even if they do, they’ll likely be hit with Dusknoir LV.X’s “Ectoplasm” Poké-Power in the process, and have to deal with a minimum of two damage counters on each of their Pokémon.
For a worst case scenario, they could lose the game due entirely to Ectoplasm, made much more potent when Warp Point, Pokémon Reversal, and Poké-Blower+ are made unavailable.
To top all of this off, Spirit Pulse Dusknoir is a potent attacker in appropriate situations, thus giving you even more options.
Why isn’t this deck played as much?
There are some dumb reasons why, but also some very good ones as well. The main “dumb” reason is that it just isn’t as obvious a combo as Vilegar; that is, “Poltergeist” and “Allergy Flower” are so clearly synergetic it’s sick, while it may take some time to even think of Dusknoir as a good partner with Vileplume.
Yet, there are also a lot of issues with this deck. While it may go a solid match versus any SP without a Mewtwo counter, hold out against any SP on its own merits, and go an insane Gyarados matchup, it’s actually fairly weak versus any good Vilegar. While in some metagames this is tolerable, it is outright unacceptable in others.
Perhaps the right answer to this problem is a switch in Dusknoir focus: run 2 Spirit Pulse with a mere single copy of Shadow command, and include DCEs while you’re at it. Perhaps then you might find an easier time against Vilegar, which would have less targets to Shadow Room, and an overall much harder time competing against you. (Unfortunately, there’s almost never going to be a chance to force a player into Ectoplasm.)
2.2: Jumpluff
Originally a tier one deck, Jumpluff’s loss of Claydol GE has led to it falling off the map, and into the dark underbelly of rogue-dom. However, I personally love the deck still, due in large part to its bearable matchups, as well as my personal fandom of the deck.
But with the loss of Claydol, there are lots of unforeseen advantages, such as the loss of an easy “Bright Look” target for Luxchomp, or the considerable amount of space made by the removal of ‘Dol.
Without further ado, here’s the first of two Jumpluff builds…
Jumpluff/Vileplume
|
Pokémon – 29 4 Hoppip HS |
Trainers – 21 4 Pokémon Collector |
Energy – 10 |
Turbo Jumpluff
|
Pokémon – 21 4 Hoppip HS |
Trainers – 31 4 Bebe’s Search |
Energy – 8 8 G |
Notes on each list…
Both run:
*Azelf to accommodate for the large number of single copies
*Mesprit to disrupt the opponent’s start, as well as to prevent any untimely Bright Looks, Flash Bites, or other dangerous early game Poké-Powers
*Skuntank G to give you an extra edge in the Vilegar and Gyarados matchups (conditionally dependent upon getting your Broken Time-Space into play before theirs)
*Seeker, to clear your board of damaged attackers primed for a double-knockout the following turn, as well as repeated use of devastating single-drop Poké-Powers.
*Some means of warping to avoid getting stuck with a highly unfavorable active, namely during the early game.
-Jumpluff/Vileplume runs:
*Looker’s or Judge, to make your lock particularly devastating against the field.
*Warp Energy so that you don’t autolose to Vileplume or Spiritomb locks.
-Turbo Jumpluff runs:
*Regice, to make Vilegar – and Spiritomb in general – more bearable. (Tip: try your best to never bench this against any Luxray GL variant unless it’s 100% necessary to win you the game.)
What makes these decks hopeful?
Jumpluff is one of the most efficient attackers in the game, capable of doing a very clean 70-120 for one G Energy. In addition, it remains marginally to moderately competitive against any top deck – more competitive versus some than others if your variant is correct for a given matchup, such as the Tomb list for SP, or the turbo list for Gyarados (arguable on both counts).
pokemon-paradijs.comIn sudden death, Jumpluff is doubtlessly a beast among beasts, as it is capable of beating even SP and Kingdra to the punch for first blood. While the threat of Hoppip donk still looms over you, every other time, it could very well be you doing the donking.
Last of all, a draw to this deck for several players has been its notable edge in consistency. While something other than the main stage two and its appropriate energy is required for a “rogue” of this type to go off, Jumpluff is a fairly self-reliant card.
What deters people from playing Jumpluff?
All of the worst problems from 2009-2010 remain: Jumpluff is a glass cannon in its own right, and the starters for the deck include five easily-donkable basics (4 Hoppip and 1 Unown Q).
Regrettably, the City Championship metagame is fairly rough on Jumpluff: out of the most popular decks, you could only consider Machamp being favorable, and even that is up in the air due to the deck’s spamming of Seeker. The rest range from bearable, to even, to somewhat poor (the turbo Jumpluff list has some particularly nasty troubles against a good Vilegar).
Success with this deck requires surprisingly high amounts of in-game skill, but if you’re up to the challenge, and are fed up with your alternatives, then this could be a striking option for the final weekend.
2.3: Garchomp SV
This is what I like to call the “other” Garchomp; that is, the oft-ignored ‘normal’ Garchomp from Supreme Victors. Like Jumpluff, it too is extremely powerful, and like Dusknoir, it has a stellar Gyarados but; unlike either, I have a feeling that it’s the safest play in most metagames.
|
Pokémon – 23 4 Gible SV |
Trainers – 23 4 Rare Candy |
Energy – 12 4 Double Colorless |
There isn’t much to say about this list’s core; however, my choice of techs are to accommodate all of your weaker matchups.
pokemon-paradijs.comExploud ought to help put most of your SP matchups over the top: with no weakness, their opposing Garchomp C can’t return the opposing KO on your Garchomp, thus leading to a situation where they’re forced to either hit a benched guy for a prize, or deal a pitifully-low amount of damage to your active. This ought to also help against the random Flygon here or there.
As for Nidoqueen, this most certainly helps in your tough game versus Vilegar, and could very well help in every matchup. Just the ability to heal is extraordinary with Guard Claw, but beyond that, you’ve also got a stellar secondary attacker.
A notable exclusion of mine is the lack of Garchomp LV.X from Majestic Dawn. I did this because its uses are simply not that great relative to the increased reliability of cranking out a reasonably quick regular Garchomp.
Has this seen success before?
Yes, but primarily in the past, and primarily in the Californian metagame. However, California has since shifted to an emphasis on Vilegar, Gyarados, and some Dialgachomp, and I haven’t heard of this winning any City Championships, so the only foreseeable success to be found with this deck is perhaps in your hands.
Why say “YES” to the other-other White Meat?
As far as hard matches go, it ranges from weak (Dialgachomp) to even or favorable against Luxchomp, and very strong against Gyarados, thus making it a legitimate choice in an area dominated by those two. Machamp is also a pretty good game for you too, so the only major hurdle to climb would be Vilegar.
pokemon-paradijs.comSecondly, and perhaps most importantly, Garchomp is naturally capable of handling a whole field of diverse matchups. Be it through the absurd damage of Speed Impact, or the amazing tank capabilities of Guard Claw, you’ll find that this deck is capable of handling a sea of randomness.
All in all, it’s a decent deck that certainly deserves more attention. Just be sure to test it at least moderately well against SP before using it in a tournament, or you might find yourself getting torn limb from limb by Garchomp C and Lucario GL.
Why say “NO” to it?
Returning to your Vilegar matchup, it’s up in the air due to the pathetically-low output of Guard Claw, alongside your opponent’s ability to turn Speed Impacts into zero-damage attacks. Many competitive metagames are quickly shifting toward an emphasis of Gengar for the last weekend of City Championships, so if you use this deck, it may help to hard counter it as much as you possibly can.
Part 3.0: Interesting Developments from the Georgia Marathon
Last, but certainly not least, are my takes on two very compelling rogues that shined at the Georgia marathon: Steelix and Yanmega/Magnezone Prime. Unlike the last two sections, which dealt with mutations of standard concepts, or paradoxically “stale” engines used for interesting, yet heavy setup-oriented rogues, these two are mainly here to show off a couple fun, fascinating, and good decks that were proven to win against some powerhouse players.
While one orboth of these results may very well have been tainted by endemic ratings drops (Michael P. and Guy B., two notable attendees of the marathon, claim this to be the case), these wins still display some truly talented exercises in deck choice and metagaming.
*NOTE: neither of these lists are meant to be the 100% carbon copies of either winner’s list; however, I figured it’d be best to give credit where credit is due, so I reference both of them for their inspiration to this section of the article. These lists are meant only to illustrate the concepts, and to serve as a playtesting basis.
3.1: Steelix (Guy B., 1st Place Newnan, GA)
|
Pokémon – 15 4 Onix UL |
Trainers – 31 4 Pokémon Collector |
Energy – 14 4 Call |
*May or may not warrant the playing of a fire counter
*May or may not warrant the playing of Junk Arm, Poké-Healer+, and/or Blissey Prime for added heal options
pokegym.netThe point of the deck is pretty simple: get out a Steelix, tank it with Special Metals, and hopefully mow everything down while you do. Several cards, such as Crobat G and Skuntank G, are here to supplement your damage output, whereas others such as Blissey are there to supplement your healing.
A couple of the tweaks in this list, inspired by Guy’s build, are the Ruins of Alph and the Black Belt, both meant to upgrade your damage capabilities (Luxchomp and any fast deck, respectively). With Black Belt, you can pull off some very easy Gaia Crush KOs, and with Ruins of Alph, Luxray GL LV.X suddenly becomes a within-range KO for your Steelix.
The past two sets have been very kind to Steelix, and it’s clearly shown for the few who have won with it. The success of Steelix is nothing new, though: as referenced in Mikey’s metagame column, a City Championship in the panhandle of Texas was won by a very similar list, so it goes to show that when the chips fall the right way, Steelix can do some huge damage.
Has this done well before?
No major wins to my knowledge, but it did earn 2010 U.S. Nationals runner-up Erik Nance a nice run at the 2010 World Championships.
Why do people not play this monstrous deck?!
The main reason is, of course, fire. Nance could have very well had an easy cruise to a first place finish had it not been for a player’s 1-1 Infernape 4 LV.X…In other words, the outskirts of the meta caught up with him. However, the threats don’t extend to just Infernape: there’s also the prolific Blaziken FB, the popular Charizard/Ninetales deck, and, of course, Entei/Raikou LEGEND.
While a combo of Twins, Bubble Coat, and Junk Arm may prove useful in some games, it’s certainly not enough to turn the tide. And while a 1-1 Glalie from Arceus may 1HKO any significant fire threat, that’s two extra spaces you’ve just sacrificed to combat a potentially irrelevant metagame factor.
Also, be wary for Dialgachomp: one good run on Remove Lost coin flips, and your Special Metals are done for.
3.2: Yanmega/Magnezone/Entei-Raikou LEGEND (Jim Roll, 1st Place Roswell, GA)
|
Pokémon – 25 4 Spiritomb AR |
Trainers – 22 4 Bebe’s Search |
Energy – 11 |
*2 free spaces (Expert Belt? Crobat G? Mesprit? Broken Time-Spaces? Beefier Entei-Raikou LEGEND? Pokémon Communications?)
pokegym.netThe strategy here is not too hard to grasp, but a little less intuitive than Healix: you start with an initial assertion of power and speed with Yanmega Prime’s Sonicboom attack, powered for free by the virtue of its “Insight” Poké-Body.
Then, after you’ve drawn a few prizes, you have the option to clean with either Magnezone Prime (extremely easy 1HKO options through Lost Burn) or Entei/Raikou LEGEND (efficient, hard-hitting Detonation Blasts, or several cheap prizes on Uxie/Azelf/Crobat G via Thunder Fall).
In order to activate Insight, we run a high count of Judges and Copycats, which are all guaranteed to activate it. Both the lists of Jim Roll and my own run Giratina to force your opponent into either denying themselves cards, or playing their way into Insight (neither option is too desirable). Still, even if your opponent opts to draw a lower amount than four on a Let Loose, it isn’t that hard for your deck to play right back down to it.
Has this won anything before/done well?
Not to my knowledge. I’ve heard about limited success from Magnezone by itself, or Yanmega with other cards, but never together. This right here is a presumed first, and while the idea’s been floating around since the release of Triumphant, nobody (other than Mr. Roll) has seen success to this extent yet.
Why hasn’t this been played as much?
For starters, this deck is the epitome of rogue – you have two seemingly unrelated cards combined for a shockingly synergetic effect, and thus, a great new edge on the metagame. However, such a deck doesn’t come to mind as quickly as the tried-and-true builds of SP, Gyarados, Vilegar, etc, so it’s bound to be uncommon, no matter where you go.
Furthermore, it seems like it has some issues against the best SP lists. While it has some very nice matches against Vilegar, Machamp, and Gyarados (especially the Jim Roll variant, which uses 2-2 Entei/Raikou), I question its ability to deal with a really solid Luxchomp, which would not only capitalize on their slower start, but the x2 Weaknesses as well.
But to be fair to the deck, it’s probably one of the best Spiritomb variants in sudden death thanks to Yanmega’s insane efficiency.
Part 4: Crucial Principles Behind Rogue Deck Choices, and Conclusion
While I may have left some of my broader strokes up to inference, I think it’s a good idea to go over in explicit detail some of the most important themes of playing an alternate deck:
Rogue does not refer to bad, egotistical players using bad decks. It has won several of the most prestigious events in the game’s history (Magma, Queendom, Rai-Eggs, Luxray GL/Beedrill), or has otherwise finished as a runner-up (Eeveelutions, Scizor).- Rogue does not automatically mean “good,” either. An altered theme deck could be considered by most to be an unorthodox rogue, but is not tantamount to anything resembling a viable list.
- Rogue requires more testing and thought to choose due to the high risk/high reward element of using it.
- Often, a perfectly decent rogue might be hindered by a disgustingly-poor matchup against a prolific deck. Even if it isn’t, the deck still may be plagued by no outright outstanding matchups (Jumpluff), or miscellaneous weaknesses (SP Toolbox).
That should do it as far as your rogue decisions may go. Just remember that, no, you don’t have to play the tried-and-true decks to do what you want: if your goal is a fun time and several entertaining games, then a rogue option for the final weekend of cities might be a good play; and even if your goal is to win, then combating a predictable metagame with an unexpected deck might be in your future.
Rest assured, the eight lists featured here are far from representative of the options this Majestic Dawn-to-Triumphant format have to offer, but I feel like they are some of the strongest rogue considerations for these last few tournaments, and perhaps even States/Regionals, as well.
Whatever your priority may be, don’t limit your options. Play an archetype because you want to; or play an alternate deck because you do.
…and that will conclude this Unlocked Underground article.
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