The Hawk’s Nest: Midterms Battle Road Style

pokebeach.comSince my last article there have now been two full weekends of Battle Roads (BR) and the third weekend it is quickly approaching. For my area, this is essentially the halfway point. We had tournaments the weekends of the 17th and the 24th. We also have tournaments the weekends of the 8th and 14th.

I will be 100% honest with everyone; I have not competed in a Battle Roads tournament yet. The week before the 17th my car had been run into. I got a call about two hours before the end of registration that they completed the repair work early. I did not think that it was going to take more than two hours to get it back, but after a little over a an hour and a half wait at Enterprise to return the rental car and 30-40 minutes at the repair shop, I was already too late to make it.

I did go out to the tournament site (about 20ish minute drive) and watch the last round of Swiss and the Top Cut matches to get a feel for how it was going. The next day I have my first ever law school paper due, so no tourney that day. Then Sunday the 25th we had our in-laws over. So, no fun that day either. Long story short, I hope to make it to a couple, but things just keep popping up.

Anyway, I want to give an overview of the metagame, the new points system’s impact, a brief section on some deck building tips, and a question for you.

The Metagame

Here are the reported results from the ‘Gym for Battle Roads victories. I would say that these are very surprising for quite a few reasons. Let’s take a look at the winners:

Masters Winning Decks (posted as of 12:30pm CT 9/26/11)

pokebeach.com9 or 11 x ZPS variants (7 x ZPST, 2 x ZPS, 2 x Zekrom; I am not sure if this is a misprint from the ‘Gym. The ‘Gym’s list has 9 ZPS variants and then two more Zekrom decks listed again. This might be only 9 if they had already condensed the list and simply forgot to remove the 2 Zekrom decks from the list.)
7 x Reshiphlosion
5 x Stage 1s (I also condensed this down. I made it so that anything that was primarily Donphan + Yanmega was a Stage 1)
4 x Primetime (2 x Y/M, 2 x Y/M/K)
3 x Reshiboar
2 x Magneboar
2 x Gothitelle/Reuniclus/Dragons (1 x G/R/Resh/Z, 1 x G/R/Z)
1 x Reuniclus/Vileplume/Donphan/Zekrom
1 x Donphan and Dragons
1 x Donphan Prime//Tornadus
1 x Lanturn/Yanmega/Zekrom (This was the deck Yamato ran at Worlds)
1 x Mew/Yanmega
1 x Mew/Cinccino
1 x Samurott/Donphan
1 x Yanmega/Weavile
1 x Yanmega/
1 x /Floatzel
1 x Cincinno/Yanmega/Kingdra
1 x Horsemega

Analysis

Top of the Pack

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This list shows 19 fundamentally different decks winning a tournament. That is crazy. However, it would appear that there is a clear Top Tier right now consisting of Zekrom and TyRam. Here is a brief explanation of why those two decks are owning the field at the moment.

These two decks are similar in some ways and different in others. Both deck’s main aim is to stream 130 HP attackers that can hit for 120 damage per turn. That is the key similarity, but the two do this in different ways.

Zekrom is hands down the fastest deck in the format. It is extremely common for this deck (as in 80%+ of the time) to be swinging for 80 damage on turn one and 120 damage on turn two. That is some serious firepower. Also, with Catcher in the format, this deck can abuse it to destroy other people’s set ups. The deck also gained Tornadus to counter Donphan. This is a great play. This deck is great on timed matches and is great in sudden death.

Tyram is possibly the most consistent deck in the format. Once set up, the deck does not fold to non-Reuniclus trainer lock and it is very hard to be successful disrupting the hands of tyRam players. I personally an still liking at least a 1-1 Ninetales if not a 2-2 line in the deck (but this is another matter for another article). This deck hits very hard by turn three. Ironically, out of the top two decks, this one has become the most versatile. The main complaint about the deck was that it was too linear and so top players desired to play other decks. However, compared to ZPST, tyRam has many great options.

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On The Cusp

It would appear that right now there are three more decks sitting on the verge of joining the elite. Those decks are PrimeTime (Yanmega/Magnezone) and Stage 1s.

Again, these two decks are very different from each other. Stage 1’s main strategy is just the slower and weaker-hitting version of ZPST. The deck tries to apply early pressure to disrupt the opponent’s set up. The difference is that this deck sacrifices a little bit of speed to cover more type matchups. This deck is solid, but I think that you should just go all in for the early disruption and the best deck to accomplish that is ZPST.

PrimeTime is another very good deck. I honestly feel that this deck deserves to be in the same breadth as the top-decks (and it very well might be by the end of Battle Roads), but it seems that many people were afraid to run Magnezone in a format with Catcher.

However, I feel that this deck has indeed lost a little bit with the release of Emerging Powers. What I mean is that you really need an extremely consistent list to succeed.

The best versions of this deck are running straight Yanmega/Magnezone without extra techs like Kingdra. That has swung the Tyram match up back into Tyram’s favor. I would expect to see this win more as the BR season rolls on, although it can struggle against ZPST.

Middle of the Road

The next block seems to be slower set up decks including Reshiboar, MagneBoar, and Gothitelle. If you are looking for a deck that has potential that has not shown really well yet, look here. I have a feeling that these decks can be improved.

The success of these three decks seem to be dependent on the success of Gothitelle. Gothitelle is a good deck, but it can struggle in the timed environment against opponents that slow the game down (within the legal means). The deck struggles even more in Top Cut when the first game will likely drag on for 35-40ish minutes. This allows the opponent to play game two to time and win on prizes and then win the sudden death game. Gothitelle can be nasty when it hits the lock early, but even then, you have to take the time to stack enough energy on a Gothitelle to be able to 1HKO things with 130+ hp.

Reshiboar and MagneBoar are two of the best counter decks to Gothitelle. Both decks can hit for more than 140 damage and secure 1HKOs even under the lock. This is accomplished through Bad Boar and RDL for Reshiboar and through Bad Boar, Magnezone Prime, and RDL for MagneBoar. These two decks can struggle against the speed and consistency of the top two decks. So, until Gothitelle takes a larger role in the format they will be likely play second fiddle.

In all these set up decks are too susceptible to early disruption from Pokémon Catcher. They are also significantly slower than the top four decks in the format.

Going Rogue

Finally, we have a bunch of one-time winners and a few of them seem to be worth noting. I have a feeling that some of these are breakable and deserve to be in the top tier, but they are just underrepresented.

The first deck that I feel is worth a look is Kingdra Prime/Yanmega. This deck saw success at Canadian Nationals and then it mysteriously disappeared for a while. This deck essentially can hit for 50 damage anywhere at any time. It is very good against Donphan and can utilize Jirachi to take several prizes at one time late in the game.

Mew/Yanmega is also a really fun deck to pilot. You can really utilize a lot of run things in this deck. For ideas on how to run this deck with a focus on Mew Prime take a look at this videofrom Ness.

The other deck that I want to touch on is Blastoise/Floatzel. This deck was widely covered immediately after the rotation. Basically this deck as very solid match ups against Donphan, Reshiram-based decks, and Reuniclus decks. It holds a distinct advantage over those decks. It should be noted that the BR this deck won had three Tyrams in the top four with this one Blastoise/Floatzel. So, if the Gothitelle decks rise in popularity you might see this deck become more playable.

I am a little surprised to not see any MewLock decks take home the top prize after Ness won the Top Cut Invitational with it. If you want to know anymore about any of the decks just post a question in the comment section or look on the forums. Most of these decks have at least halfway decent lists floating around. Moving on.

Meta-Comments

Diversity

Wow is this a diverse format at the moment. There are so many decks that are viable and that can succeed. I personally think this is great for the game. Here are the pros and cons:

Pros

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– This allows players to be creative in their deck building and deck choices. For the first time in a long time, players can open their binders, look at cards and say “why not?” This is true for everything from techs to core strategies.

– Having a multitude of deck choices allow players to access the game cheaply. Yes the staples (Collector and Catcher) are running at between $20 and $40 a play set, but everything else is solid. If you really need in on a budget you can look at Cinccino/Zoroark or Leafeon. One of the top three decks is still considerably cheap (Tyram). Save for Yanmega, nothing is over $30 a card to get a hold of. Compare this to the prices of Uxie LV.X and Luxray GL LV.X.

– This can keep games fresh for many people. Even at the top tables there are several decks that you could reliably see (Tyram, ZPST, Stage 1, Goth, MewPlume, , MagneBoar). This means that right now there are rarely going to be mirror, after mirror, after mirror portions of your day.

Cons

– The rock/paper/scissors portion of the format has many players frustrated with “luck” again. This time the luck is not in coin flips, but rather in match ups.

– There is a real lack of predictability right now. I would assume that by the time Regionals role around, this will straighten itself out, but for now there are several things that could show up on any given day.

Pokémon Catcher

I will not harp on this too much, but man this card is vital and so far it has won the Catcher v. Item-Lock war. It has increased the number of Vileplumes and Gothitelles being played, but fast decks are running the show at the moment.

Quick and Fast v. Slow and Powerful

Mark A. Hicks

This argument really comes down to the time limit P!P has instituted in the competitive environment. The fast decks have come out of the gate and appear to have the upper hand. The second place of decks are still the medium set up decks like Tyram and Yanmega/Magnezone.

However, I think that people are figuring out that against the crippling but slow decks (MagneBoar, Ross.dec, Gothitelle, etc) they can and should use time to their advantage. The moment that you opponent turns over a basic from those decks, you can just start using all of your legal time allotment and win on time.

The Hype Machine

Is anyone really surprised by the lack of relative success by Gothitelle? It happens over and over again in this game. People love the new stuff over the old stuff. When a new card has any hint of being top tier it is immediately anointed the Best Deck in Format (BDIF). Then oftentimes it falls (often hard). Now, this is not to say that the new decks are bad, but it is only to say that the new decks are not often the runaway BDIF.

Take a look at recent history. Gengar Prime was supposed to dethrone LuxChomp and run rampant over the format. Fail. MagneBoar was supposed to be the BDIF by a large margin (as in you better expect nothing but mirror matches all day at the top tables and that the deck had at least 60-40 matchups against everything save the mirror). Not so much.

Now, Gothitelle is just the latest to fall to the hype machine. It is important to note that MagneBoar did come back to win Worlds. I have a feeling that Goth will firmly be in the top of the metagame also, just not as the runaway BDIF.

It is also interesting to note that after Black and White hit the shelves in Japan, it was “reported” that ZPST and ReshiBoar were the two best decks and that Goth was the third wheel. It would seem that this is holding relatively true (save Emboar being switched with Typhlosion). ZPST is just so fast that it destroys setups. Tyram is also quick, and if it can hit a Turn 2 Typhlosion and another on Turn 3 it is in great shape almost unstoppable. Then Goth + other setup decks are coming up. The variation to this is the Stage 1 builds. I will be back with more about the expected Regional metagame after Battle Roads is over (don’t be surprised to see ZPST, Reshiram, and Gothitelle).

The Points System

OK, this is the first time I have covered the subject. I will keep my opinion really short and will cover in the effect it is having on the game.

My Take

I honestly do not like the way the points system is set up with the current point allotment. I love the idea of accumulating points instead of tracking Elo, but the system is out of whack right now. First, I think that Battle Roads and Cities are worth too much relative to Regionals and Nationals. I think that the larger events need to be worth more points and not that the cap needs to be less on the smaller event.

Second, because the smaller events are worth so much, the current system punished people who cannot travel much more than the last event. Third, there are too many great records going unrewarded. Fourth, it makes the game less accessible for new players. With Battle Roads relatively worth more, they are more competitive. Fifth, because BR are worth more, you have potentially increased the impact of luck on the game’s ranking structure.

For example, in our first two BRs Poké-Parents beat some very good “standard masters.” Those parents got on a great roll (one of them had only been playing his deck for like 3-4 days) and essentially “took” vital points from players who actually plan on using them.

Finally, the kicker system is messed up. The winner of a more-populated event deserves more points that a winner of a smaller event. So, the kicker should, for example, increase 1st place at BR should go up to 3, the 2nd place should go to 2, and the 3rd place should get 1, etc. Under the current system, this is not feasible, but if you make States, Regionals, and Nationals worth more, this could easily happen.

The Effect

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The effect has already been noticeable. In the past many of the great players of the game have skipped Battle Roads altogether. Now you have people like Jayson Harry, Micheal Pramawat, Ness, Brit Pybas, etc. going to multiple Battle Roads. This has instantly increased the competitiveness of the tournament. Every point is very important and great players are coming out for these small tournaments.

In addition, Battle Roads are going longer. We have had between 5-6 rounds for each of the battle roads in this area. Pair this with top cut and a possible lunch break and you have an event that is taking between six and seven hours of the day (40 min for each round and to get the results processed, 1 hour for each top cut round, 1 hour for lunch). This is very disheartening. This is not much shorter than Cities and some States. So much for short and concise season opening tournaments

Also, many players are calling for a mandatory Top Cut of eight because with points only going to the top 2 or 4, no one wants to go X-1 and miss on points because of resistance (which I think is a more fair idea with the new points system). If we get this in the future, you would be looking at seven to eight hours.

Deck Building

This section will be very short. I just wanted to touch on two things that people have routinely asked me before Battle Roads.

1. Consistency is key right now. There are very few decks that can tech out to cover the less than ideal match ups (except for Vileplume/Reuniclus, Mew Box, and maybe Stage 1s). Everything else needs to go for max consistency. Don’t worry about getting that single card here or there to cover the terrible match up. With the diversity in the field, don’t worry about that one match up that gives you problems. Just take the single loss and win the rest. Of course, if your meta is full of bad match ups, you should probably change decks (if you want to win).

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2. I am not going to cover this in the detail it deserves, but I want to put it out there: multi-use cards. When you are building a deck look at each slot in the deck, not any particular card but rather the function that slot needs to achieve. An example of this would be the four slots devoted to basic Pokémon search. Now obviously this is best achieved by Pokémon Collector, but you will limit your creativity if you view these slots as “Collector Slots” instead of “basic search” slot.

One example for the format past, is MagneRock. MagneRock needed away to get high retreat Pokémon out of the Active spot that got Bright Looked up. Well so most builds has two slots devoted to “free retreat”. Now what cards could possibly fill that slot? You had Switch, Warp Point, and Warp Energy. What was often the best one to choose. Well Warp Energy was. That card was serving two purposes: energy for Lost Burn and free retreat.

One example in the current format comes from Tyram. With Catcher and Mew (w/ Muk) decks running around, you need a way to get out of the active. The deck normally has 14 energy slots and two retreat slots. So, instead of running all Fire Energy and two Switch, you can run 12 Fire, 2 DCE, and 1 Retreat.

Now you still have 14 Energy to drop and use for attacking and you have three retreat cards (since DCE can cover anything’s Retreat Cost) for a combined 15 slots instead of 16 slots. Thus, you have just opened up one slot to use for other things. This is a great way to fit a single of something that you might want to include.

So, please remember to at least consider multi-purpose cards.

Question for the Readers

I have an article that is sitting on my hard drive. It is about my overall experience from my first year of competitive play. It is written as a narrative (so it is obviously about me and not the metagame or anything). It offers general tips for players and members of this community that were derived from my year. Is this something that you are interested in right now, or would it get in the way of “serious” competitive gaming articles?

Thanks!

Reader Interactions

41 replies

  1. Joe Yang

    ZPST taking a bunch of Battle Roads?

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

    Time to play Blastoise.

    • Chris Barrieau  → Joe

      Good luck with that :) But yes. Blastoise FTW. …Even if that’s not what I’m running anymore. :P But I did run it at Canadian Nats last year (my first nats ever) and went 4-3 with it :) 

      • Joe Yang  → Chris

        It won’t be hard. A bit of sneaky tweaking and I should be able to keep good board control against ZPS with Blastoise. It just requires teching something darned special.

        • Anonymous  → Joe

          I think some possible ideas would be Bouffalant (revenge), Zoroark, or Beartic.

  2. Mike v

    hey im just wondering what deck do you think is safer to take to BRs. ZPST Tyram or Prime time. i am still playtesting but i cant decide.

    • Anonymous  → Mike

      I know this is not directed at me, but it’s a coinflip between ZPST and Tyram.  Take whatever you feel more comfortable with.

    • Anonymous  → Mike

      I agree with yindoxy, take whatever you are most comfortable with. Personally, I feel that the head to head match up is close to 50/50. So, then you look at the match ups across the board. Well, ZPST has the ability to finish the game instantly. On the other hand, tyRam is more “durable” for longer games. That is what I value more, so I stick with tyRam for now.

    • Benjamin Bolival  → DrMime

      Probably time for a Poke-Parents division so they wont be messing up your precious Master’s division

    • Anonymous  → DrMime

      I’m am deeply sorry if I mad you mad or offended you. The way the article came across was not how I intended it to come off. I really enjoy and respect all of the Poke-parents. Again, I am sorry.

      • DrMime  → Anonymous

        Nope, not offended. I got kids, which means I have enough going on in my life not to get hung up about some 6P article. But I did think it was funny.

        Now if I was one of those top-tier “standard” players you’re talking about who lost to a Pokédad over the last couple of weeks, well then I might be offended–I doubt they feel they need your help.

  3. alex bob

    I also am a little angry that they made battle roads so important, I cant go to more than about 3 of them, and so basically that means I have no chance whatsoever. Amazing article though.

  4. Chris Barrieau

    BTW. If you go to BR’s in Spring, that counts towards your 8 BR’s too…. :) 

  5. Bryan McNamara

    If you don’t want “poke parents” to “take” your championship points, then don’t lose to them. And, where do I apply to be considered a “standard master?”

    • Stephen Mills  → Bryan

      ^Agreement

      Just to add on, if a “Poke-Parent” beats a “standard master,” what are you trying to imply? Because it sounds to me like the Poke-Parent is better than the standard master in that scenario, or at least is competent enough to win.

      • Anonymous  → Stephen

        Ok,

        First, I am very sorry to offend any Parents. I have already said this many times. I love the parents involved in the game.

        What I meant by “standard” was the players’ age and that was all. It is relatively accepted that in the masters division there are the younger players 25 and younger and then there are the Parents of the juniors and seniors. (general guidelines)

        Obviously age does not have any direct correlation to skill level. There are some parents who are as good as anybody. Yet, in general the <25 years old crowd tends to (on the whole) be more serious in the competitive scene in relative comparison to the parents who play to spend time with their kids and pass a day away while the kids are being ultra-competitive (both are GREAT reasons to play).

        So, I have already heard (and therefore was relaying) that some of the younger masters were frustrated because some parents were winning the points (because they played better on those days and deserved them) and thus the net point pool for the World's invites was shrinking because some of those parents had zero intention of every going to Worlds.

        I hope that this cleared things up a bit. I definitely used generalizations that I should not have. I am very sorry.

  6. Anonymous

    Hey,

    I definitely owe an apology to the Poke-parents out there. It would seem that I just cannot keep myself from sticking my foot in my mouth. Let me just clarify a few things.

    -Personally, I pull for almost every Poke-parent at every tournament I am attending. I have nothing but positive experiences with the parents I have both encountered and played matches against. Probably the three top people that I talk with, share ideas with, and get the most enjoyment of of interacting with are all Poke-parents.
    -I definitely used a generalization that maybe I should not have. Some parents are very good players. We all know that.
    -That being said, I do not hear many parents being that serious about winning worlds. Let’s be honest, whenever a parent takes the tournament win we all smile for two reasons: 1) we love the parents of the game/ appreciate what they do and 2) it is not expected (in most cases).
    -So, what I was merely saying is that some of the younger (probably a better word that “standard”) masters have already complained that parents can win the points and essentially lower the points in play for a World’s invite. This was not an issue with the ELO system because you still realized substantial rewards for taking second (or third) at an event.

    Now, I completely agree that if those players were mad that points were “taken” they should have just won the events themselves. I was trying to relay the general feel that I had for the state of the game.

    I really do apologize if I offended any parents.

  7. Stephen Mills

    This is a great insight into the BRs as of now. 

    I do agree that Gothitelle, like so many other decks, did fall to the hype. I, however, think it won’t become BDIF simply because of Catcher ruining the setup and Magnezone and Mew basically creating autolosses, as well as the what-would-become-highly-played-if-Gothitelle-were-to-become-popular Blastoise.

    I also agree about the BRs sometimes needing a Cut of 8. I went 5-1 and beat the only X-0 in the last round and lost off of resistance, placing 6th, which was sort of disheartening to not get any points off of. With a Top Cut of 8, that could be helped a lot. I know a lot of people wouldn’t like the time factor, and that could become a problem, but I feel like it’s a good trade-off.

    • Anonymous  → Stephen

      Yeah, I honestly do not think that we will have a runaway BDIF with the current card pool. Decks struggle to tech for the poor match-ups. Therefore, when any one deck becomes too heavily played, the counter will just be played more. This is true with anything. I was just wanting to point out that there were a sizable chunk of the player base that quickly claimed Gothitelle’s preeminence. It simply turned out to be false.

      I agree, I would trade the longer day for a more equitable top cut of 8.

  8. Adam Capriola

    Great article Andy – and no sweat about the Poke-parents thing. I understood what you meant when I was editing, but wasn’t thinking how it could be interpreted by other people (aka parents!).

    And in regards to your question: Yes I think an article about your experiences would be cool! I really enjoy reading more personal stuff from people and I think everyone can learn from your experiences.

  9. Aron Figaro

    As a “standard master” shooting for an invite who blew it in top 2 to a Poke-Parent last weekend…great games Con and I’ll have my revenge!

  10. Ed Mandy

    2 things:

    First, the tiering based off the results seems like it may be a bit flawed.  I would suspect that ZPS and TyRam to be the most played decks around.  They’re generally cheaper to build and easier to play.  If this assumption is correct, then that may be a big reason why we see more at the top of the list.  BRs should be the easiest tourneys to win, so there’s a good chance that the most winning decks will also be the most played decks.  I would say that any deck with multiple wins may be potentially tier 1.  Certainly Stage 1s and Primetime are not out of the running solely based on the results you’ve shown.

    Second, let me jump on the Poke-Parents comment…

    [For example, in our first two BRs Poke-Parents beat some very good
    “standard masters.” Those parents got on a great roll (one of them had
    only been playing his deck for like 3-4 days) and essentially “took”
    vital points from players who actually plan on using them.]

    …but not because it targets parents.  Sadly, you can’t take vital points from players who actually plan on using them.  This is a very skewed view of the situation.  A better statement would be something like.

    “Some players who thought they were good enough to get to worlds ended up losing to seemingly less prepared opponents.”

    I’ve taken enough points away from worlds hopefuls (and even worlds top cutters) to know that anything can happen if you play to win.  Welcome to Pokemon, Mr. Standard Master!

    (The last sentence is definitely not directed at any particular player.)

    • Anonymous  → Ed

      Thanks for the comment Ed. I’ve read your stuff on OneHitKo and have nothing but respect for you. I’ll tackled the comment in reverse order:

      You are absolutely correct that I should have written that differently. I apologize. You spot on.

      As for the tiers:

      -Yeah generally, decks that are played more are most successful and ZPST and tyRam are played a lot right now. However, 16 combined wins (assuming the ZPST count is actually at 9 not 11) is a big number over the field. As for price, they are not any cheaper than Gothitelle (Goth is a very cheap deck to put together right now). So, I’m not too sure how much you can figure price into the equation there. I also think that you have to ask yourself, why are they played so much? Well it’s because they have solid to great match ups across the board, they are cheap, and they are relatively easy. In my book those are all things that can greatly contribute to a top tier deck. I would urge anyone to not fall into the misconception that the BDIF has to be “difficult” to play. There is absolutely nothing wrong with “easy” decks if they are truly the best. I think we might have that going on right now.

      -That being said, I did (a couple times) indicate that these were just the “midterm” results and that decks can slide up and down as the BR season progresses. I honestly believe that PrimeTime is the next best deck and might deserve a spot up top. I will however completely stand my be assessment that Stage 1s is generally a lesser form of ZPST. It can be a turn slower and it hits for less damage. So, I would almost argue that inherently ZPST > Stage 1s. Stage 1s only big advantage was type coverage on Zekrom, but with Tornadus that just disappeared. 

      -Also, many battle roads just got more interesting this year. Yes, I know that there are some that are still relatively low key, but you have people like Ness, Pram, Jayson, etc. showing up to these. You have people driving 3+ hours one way to come to a BR now. I would say that while someone can get lucky and run through an event, they are not to be written of as easily now.

      • Ed Mandy  → Anonymous

        Yeah, you’ve got some good points there.  I wasn’t so much saying that your article was wrong, but rather (in some way agreeing) that, while there are obvious frontrunners, the simple statistics of wins don’t show the entire picture yet.

        There’s no need to apologize.  In fact, there is one part of the whole PokeParent comment that was near perfect.  Even if you agree with me and think that my version of the statement is more correct, it’s probably better (from an article perspective) to write it the way you did.  I’m not suggesting that you did it on purpose, but it does serve a significant purpose.

        Look at all the comments you’ve generated.  It’s good to be controversial.  Keep everyone’s feedback in mind, but don’t shy away from bold reaction-inducing statements.  You write good articles.  Keep it up!

  11. Ron Routhier

    “For example, in our first two BRs Poke-Parents beat some very good “standard masters.” Those parents got on a great roll (one of them had only been playing his deck for like 3-4 days) and essentially “took” vital points from players who actually plan on using them.”

    That was a really dumb comment. Nobody who plays Pokemon is entitled to any Championship Points or Worlds Invite. Your excuse of “I was trying to relay the general feel that I had for the state of the game” is just as ignorant. If you honestly feel that only a select few are entitled to win and go to the elite tournaments, then Pokemon as a game and a company is in seriuos trouble.

    It’s even more troubling that Adam, even after reading these comments, allowed that statement to stay on the article. No wonder you want to get rid of the DISLIKE option when you allow articles like this on your site. Do you know how many “Poke-Parents” are paying members of The Underground? Or was The Underground only intended for those that are entitled to go get a Worlds Invite?

    If it wasn’t for these so called “Poke-Parents” to bring in new, young players to the game, then your beloved game you feel so entitled to play would fold in a matter of years.

    And what the flip is a “Standard Master”? Are you kidding me? I’m willing to bet 99% of Pokemon players couldn’t pick a “Standard Master” out of a line-up. So much for Pokemon players not putting themselves on a tier like Magic players do. What a joke.

    Next time THINK…………………………….

    • Adam Capriola  → Ron

      I typically don’t edit articles after they’re posted unless it’s requested by the author (it’s their work and I don’t to put my words in their mouth). That’s just how I’ve run things with this site – I don’t censor anything unless it’s vulgar. Even if it’s in my best interest to put my “spin” something through careful editing, I don’t – everyone has a right to their own opinion and own words.

      Airhawk didn’t ask for it to be changed (or if he did, I missed it). I’ll gladly change it if he wants to be changed, but that’s up to him.

      If you want MY opinion on parents winning Championship Points, it’s that I can see how a “standard Master” (however you may define that) could be frustrated, but that’s how the game goes! May the best player win. Nothing is a given and everyone has to earn their points. The most deserving players will end up with Worlds invites at the end of the season.

    • Anonymous  → Ron

      Look, I have already apologized for the way it was phrased. I am sorry, and I didn’t mean to offend anyone.

      That being said, calm down. Do you even read the comments before posting one yourself? I already explained what I mean by a “standard” master (someone who tends to be younger or is into the game competitively). What I meant by “Poke-parent” is someone who has no intention of being competitive, but rather plays the game to connect with their kid(s) and to spend a day with their kid(s) (these are both GREAT reasons to play the game, if not some of the BEST reasons).

      I never said that anyone was entitled to the point. I was merely relaying (information which has on more than one occasion been told to me and I on some level agree with) that when someone wins an event those points are gone out of the pool of points. So, when a person, who often even admits, that does not intend to ever use the points for competitive purposes (ie. going to Worlds) wins, those points are taken out of the system. The main thing to take away was that this never happened in the ELO system. You were not directly and irreversibly losing access to points by coming in third. All you hard work to get to third was rewarded with ranking points. Now, it is not rewarded, and it does rub some people the wrong way that this is the case. 

      I absolutely love the Poke-parents I know in the game. The three people I enjoy talking to the most in the game are parents. I also do not think that they would have a problem with what I said in the article.

      Then there is no reason to go after Adam for this one. You make it sound like this is the worst thing in the world and there is no conscionable way anyone could say anything like this. 

      • Aaron J. Walker  → Anonymous

        Ok, I read your apology but, just above, you put your foot squarely back in your mouth after apologizing.

        “What I meant by “Poke-parent” is someone who has no intention of being competitive…”

        As a Poke Dad, I DO try to be competitive. I’m not trying to waste my time or my opponents time by playing with anything less than the desire to win and trying to give them a real run for their money. Why would you think it would be different?

        However, like many (some? most?) Pokeparents, I can’t be as “competitive” as you seem to suggest I should be because: 1. Buying the cards (or cards to trade) for a “competitive” deck takes second place to electric bills, gas, insurance, school supplies, food, shelter, etc. and 2. the money for the cards I do buy goes to my son so he can have a better opportunity at being “competitive.”

        But to suggest I am not being as “competitive” as I am able (while keeping in mind reason 1 & 2 above) is dismissive at best. 

        Realistically, it may (probably) never happen, but that doesn’t mean I don’t “want” to get to Worlds nor that I don’t sit down across from my opponent and take the game just as serious as the more “competitive” player you hold in such high esteem.

  12. Anonymous

    Beartic/Vileplume was supposed to be apart of the hype machine too, but it hasn’t won anything lol.

  13. Jac Adarti

    Wow, there sure are a lot of “Poke-parents” getting pretty butthurt about one sentence in this article. Get over yourselves guys; It’s Pokemon for God’s sake. If you are going to competitively play a kids’ trading card game, you have to be able to laugh at yourself.

    Otherwise go play Magic.

    EDIT: After a bit of thought, they could always add a “Seniors” league. =P

  14. Scott O’Brien

    Quote:
    It would appear that right now there are -three- more decks sitting on the verge of joining the elite. Those decks are PrimeTime (Yanmega/Magnezone) and Stage 1s.
    This is 2.

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