So, if you read my latest Kenny’s Wisdom you’ll know that it was a rundown of the Battle Roads format. You’ll also know that I was pretty wrong about that Battle Roads format. I’m going to go through exactly what I was wrong about and why in just a minute, but first let me fully admit that I was wrong, and that that’s just what happens sometimes.
I made a few incorrect calls about the format, some of which in retrospect should’ve been obviously wrong, and others that I still sort of stand by. The bottom line is that everybody makes mistakes, and I’m glad that no one has stormed my home with torches and pitchforks (yet, at least). With that out of the way, let’s address the specific issues….
– My exact words about Zekrom were that it was “on the verge of tier 1.” I’m not so upset about this, because I still feel like it’s only performing as well as it is because of an underdeveloped meta (it’s good, but not amazing), but I do feel pretty bad about my list. Thundurus was bad, no Gothitelle counters were wrong, etc. I’ve been testing a super rogue-ish list that I don’t think is worth sharing here at the moment, and all of my real testing lists aren’t my own so I can’t exactly share them, but I admit full out that my list was pretty mediocre.
– MegaZorD and Stage 1s in general are pretty good after all. I completely wrote the deck off because I thought Gothitelle would be much more of a presence, and I still feel that in areas where Gothitelle is huge S1s probably isn’t the play without some sort of techs, but overall it was my fault for not seeing the power of this deck in a non-suicide girl format, and being a bit too obsessed with the Goth deck in general.
As you’ll see later in this article, I actually played a Stage 1 variant to decent results, so there will be more on that later. I’ve now done a complete 180 on this deck (particularly in areas of high Zekrom usage), and if it holds up over the next few weeks will be writing an article solely dedicated to it.
– ReshiPhlosion is better than I thought, but I still stand by most of what I said. Again, I truly believe that it struggles against Gothitelle, but it’s Zekrom matchup is very favorable, so once again, it all comes down to the metagame. I also should’ve been a little less lazy and written more about ReshiPhlosion’s effectiveness/appeal due to its cost and relative ease of play, something I’ll definitely take into consideration for future Face of Modified articles.
The one constant in all of these bullet points is that almost everything in this game right now is metagame and matchup dependent. I’m personally the type of player that likes when there are a couple of decks that stand above all the rest, with enough room for some rogue innovation (MD-On, besides the staleness and Uxie, was a good example of this).
I feel that kind of format allows for players to have to worry less about running into a random matchup and losing, and more about countering the mirror and the bigger decks, so that it truly comes down to a game of skill and decklists rather than just numbers and odds (and no, I’m not trying to insinuate that Sabledonk/Uxie format was super skilled based; as I’ve said countless times, Uxie was bad for the game).
What we have in this format, at least for now, is a handful of decks that are all pretty bad and that have 50/50 matchups vs. the field. Nothing truly beats everything, and the metagame really determines what you flat-out can and can’t play.
Fortunately for players like me, Idon’t think this trend will continue. This format is new (after all, we are only two weeks into BRs), and I feel that in the next few weeks, and at the very least come Regionals time we’ll have solved it and will be able to speak with more confidence about what’s good and what’s not. If I’m correct about it eventually evening out, it’s kind of a win/win either way.
If we DO solve it before Regionals, we get to have much easier testing times in preparation for Regionals, and I get the kind of format I like. If we don’t solve it before Regionals, we get to be innovative and will probably end up having the best deck at Regionals, as we did last year. It’s all upside!
Battle Roads Reports
For those of you who don’t follow my Twitter and Facebook feeds (and let’s face it, if you don’t, you’re a fool), let me run down my absolute mediocre Battle Road run this far. I’m not going to take the time to do full-on reports as none of my performances merit it, but I thought I’d keep you, the fans, updated on how I’ve been doing.
Battle Road #1: Lynnwood, WA 9/17
pokebeach.comI play MegaZone w/ Pachirisu, no Kingdra, no Twins, and 3/2 Catcher/Switch.
I die to a T2 Donphan vs. my Pachi in Round 1. Not much I can do, I even played a Sage and a Judge and hit no outs. 0-1
Round 2 I almost get Spider Locked (Spinarak w/ Vileplume up vs. a Cleffa), but my opponent mistakenly skips the turn, skipping his attack phase, and he can never recover from there. 1-1
Round 3 I have a very close, tense match with Michael Chin’s MagneBoar where I played a little loose and he was able to win on +3. 1-2
I can’t remember at all what happened in Round 4, except that I won. 2-2
Round 5 I played a very nice Pokédad who was a fan of my articles, which was awesome. I ended up taking the game and having a good conversation about the game with him and his son. 3-2
Yay for mediocrity! B-Side members Ryan Merryfield, Isaiah Middleton and Trevor Whiton make the top 4. Ryan loses to the MegaZorD player, while Isaiah edges out Trevor in the mirror. Isaiah then hits a string of bad luck and loses to MegaZorD in the finals. Isaiah walked away with Championship Points and Ryan got a Victory Cup, so not all was lost.
I also want to take this time to say that I really appreciate everyone whose ever come up to me at a tournament to say they’re a fan of my work. I had quite a few people at Worlds, which wasn’t totally unexpected, but it really surprised me that so many local players who I’m not friends with read my stuff as well.
Always awesome to hear from readers. Please feel free to come up and talk to me if you ever see me at a tournament, or on the street, in a bathroom stall, etc.
BR #2: Tukwila, WA 9/24
I played MegaZone w/ Twins and went 2-2 drop. Ran bad all day, disregard.
BR #3: Seattle, WA 9/25
Firstly let me say that the venue this was held at, Card Kingdom, is absolutely great. They’re a big name in the Magic world and are just now breaking into running Pokémon league and tournaments. They have the best prices on sealed product (they don’t sell Pokémon singles, unfortunately) anywhere around, and are one of the nicest, most clean/well-lit game stores I’ve ever been in.
Doesn’t even feel like a game store, especially with all the hardwood flooring and a bar in the back! If you’re in the Seattle area, you’re doing yourself a disservice by not checking this place out.
I was set on playing MegaZone again, but I make a late-night audible to a Stage 1s variant with Cinccino, Yanmega, and Zoroark (MegaZorC?). Ultimately it was a huge mistake not to run Donphan over Zoroark as our meta has proven to be pretty Zekrom heavy, but that’s what I get for changing decks the night before. :D
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Pokémon – 18 4 Yanma TM 3 Yanmega Prime 2 Zoroark BLW
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Trainers – 32 4 Pokémon Collector 4 Pokémon Communication
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Energy – 10 4 Double Colorless |
The list is pretty decent I guess, but could definitely be improved upon. Isaiah Middleton posted it on B-Side the night before the tournament and I decided to run with it. I took out the Pokégear 3.0 he originally had for a fourth PlusPower, which was probably incorrect.
I also cut to 2 Juniper for another PONT, which I was a huge fan of. If I could do it all over again I would’ve cut Zoroark for Donphan, and then probably cut a PlusPower for an additional Switch, and try to find room for another Fighting or two (removing the Dark, of course). Not sure, but it’d be something along those lines.
Round 1: Michael Chin w/ Cinccino/Kingdra/Yanmega
pokebeach.comHe’s playing the deck that I actually wanted to play, but couldn’t get ahold of Tyler Ninomura (the single person to win a BR with the deck) in time to get the list. I figure I have a pretty decent matchup, but it wouldn’t be easy, especially as Michael is a fantastic player.
He gets a slight lead, but I make a few decent early to midgame calls, which, combined with him running cold mid-game, allow me to pull ahead and ultimately take the game. If he would’ve gotten a little bit more luck it would’ve been more even, but as it was he still had 2 or 3 Prizes when the game ended.
This game really just came down to Michael playing a Cleffa on the board (although he had to). Without being able to take that last prize via Yanmega, he very well may have had me.
1-0
Round 2: Joshua Anspach w/ LostGar
Joshua is a SixPrizes reader, and a great guy.
He takes an early lead, but after I set-up both a Cinccino and a Yanmega and KO both his Mews, it’s super hard for him to come back. He focused a lot on Mew early game, which, although probably correct, lead to me being able to KO everything on his board with Cinccino, ultimately leading to the W for me.
One of the best LostGar builds and players I’ve ever met, for sure. GG Josh!
2-0
pokebeach.comRound 3: ??? w/ Ursaring Donphan
I thought this matchup was going to be kind of awkward since I can’t 1HKO Ursaring very often and Donphan 1-shots my Cinccino, but as it played out it went pretty smoothly. He started Donphan which was easy enough to kill with Yanmega, and by the time he had Ursarings up they had EQ damage on them and were 1HKO-able by my scarf mouse. He ended up scooping when I had 3 Prizes to his 5.
3-0
Round 4: Ryan Merryfield w/ Zekrom
B-Siiiiide.
I ran cold and he obliterated me in 3 or 4 turns. I probably can’t beat Zekrom anyway, so I didn’t take the loss too hard.
3-1
Round 5: David Nassett w/ Gothitelle
We both had awkward starts, but I was able to take an early lead. Unfortunately he ripped a Twins off of a Judge and went off from there. I played it out for a long time as he made some less-than-great plays, but in the end being unable to 1HKO did me in.
3-2
TEAM 3-2 does it (shouts to Emily Engle).
B-Side members Ryan Merryfield and Sam Cottle both make cut and play each other in the semis. Ryan beats Sam’s TyRam with Zekrom, and then goes on to lose a mirror in the finals. It happens.
So those are my Battle Roads so far. Nothing super interesting, mediocre performances all around. Hopefully I’ll make better choices in the future, and will have a performance worth writing about soon. Moving on!
Thoughts on Championship Points
I’m a little late so I’m going to assume that a.) you all know what Championship Points are (they should’ve just called them pro points ugh), and b.) you’ve already read enough about them to not want to hear about it anytime soon. With all that in mind here are some quick thoughts:
– It’s very hard to judge how the system is going to work when we have such little information. We don’t know the state of Nationals, if there are going to be two Regionals in each area, how many points it’s going to take to qualify for Worlds, if your Championship Points will be recurring, if there will be an LCQ this year, etc. We essentially know nothing, so it’s hard to really be passionate about the situation.
– That being said, I inherently dislike the system and think that it hurts the game. I don’t think Elo is perfect, but it’s certainly better than an “all or nothing” mentality that the game has now taken on. I personally know players who qualified for Worlds last year by racking up a string of decent (aka not 1st, or often times second) places at tournaments. Bubbling cut at Cities, maybe getting a 3rd or 4th here or there, and then doing decent at States/Regionals led them to an invite, and that’s simply something that doesn’t look like it’ll happen this year.
Again, it’s hard to speak on it without nothing the point threshold, but it really bums me out as a player to know that with my 3rd place performance at a BR I get nothing except Elo points that I’ll be able to use if and when I ever do get a pro point.
I foresee a lot of bitterness happening in local communities in the coming months, since now if you get beaten by a player who already has an invite, or otherwise won’t be able to attend Worlds/Nats, they are literally taking everything and leaving you with something they’ll never lose. That’s a whole other subject, though.
– I don’t believe Nationals will be invite only. Rather, I think that Nationals will require a certain amount of Play! Points (aka participation points), making it so that you can’t simply walk into Nationals after taking an entire season off and qualify. Even if it were something low, like 1 BR, 1 CC, and 1 State/Regional, it would still be enough to hold some players back. Whether or not this is a positive tactic for the game is another issue, but I think that’s how the invites will work out.
– Taking away scholarships on a Regional level with no replacement will kill this game. Not even debatable. People have been talking about Worlds invitations automatically coming with some sort of scholarship, which would be nice, but still not perfect. I’ve been running a league for longer than I’ve actually been playing this game, and nearly every parent that comes to me is skeptical until I mention that you can drive a few hours to Regionals and potentially win a $1,500 scholarship and a trip to an event that hands out even bigger rewards.
The local-level scholarships are the absolutely lifeblood of this game, across all divisions, and if there are no replacements for it in the coming years, Pokémon will die outside of Japan. I say this as a person that loves this game just as much as anyone else. The game simply cannot survive when you tell players “Hey, if you drive several hours and win a 300-person event you’ll have to take time off of work/school to be flown to an event where you could possibly win money!” It just won’t work.
If anyone at Pokémon is reading this and wants to speak with me more about the issue, please feel free to do so. The same applies if you don’t work for Pokémon, but are just a reader, let’s talk in the comments about this, as I feel it’s a pretty big deal.
– I feel that TPCi employees essentially saying that “we’ll fix the system as we go along” on the Pokégym is a pretty big slap in the face. The system should’ve just been implemented next year if it wasn’t ready, don’t throw out a broken system the day before the first tournament series. I feel like I’ve bitter berried enough thus far though, so I’ll let that one go.
– I’m pretty sure that Championship Points will stack season to season, which is why you earn them at Worlds, and the justification for letting Regionals have no scholarship. I think that you’ll have to earn a certain amount to qualify, and once you’re qualified you’ll be qualified from now on (I suppose a slight raising of the cap might happen over the years, again it’s hard to tell with such limited information.
That’s all I’ve got to say on that topic for now, but if people are interested I’m pretty certain I’ve got an articles worth of thought on the subject. :D
Random Thoughts
– Did you guys see that Victory Cups are worth dollars, now? Like a significant amount of dollars? A card that’s 10× more common, 10× more unplayable is somehow worth 10× more than a Victory Medal. Sell yours now!
– How does everyone think they’ll handle the distribution of next set? If they keep it mostly intact we’ve got something like 6 full arts that need to be released, which seems like it’ll be quite the hassle as far as rarities and stuff go. Hopefully they make them less rare (as rare as Primes would be nice) for the trade off.
That’s all I’ve got for now, meet me next week, same kentime, same kenchannel.
xoxo
kw
Thanks Kenny sad thing about the scholarships, I think it will make regionals a lot smaller, I dont think it will work either. Im going to regionals for the first time this year and was pretty sad to hear that, Thanks for the good article 1+
Not a problem, thanks for reading!
Wrong. Its going to make a large portion of the community that would normally go drop, but because the Regionals are spread out in such a way that there is no longer one in every single region, attendance will actually rise.
Obviously nice that we can play at two regionals again, but this seems more like a ploy to show that players like the system because attendance numbers will be higher.
Full arts are a “want” more than a “need” – I hope they show up in Noble Victories and the set does not shrink, but I could care less for the seeding of them. If they botch the uncommon and rare seeding like they did Emerging Powers, however, I will be voting with my wallet and NOT buying boxes. 2-3 catchers per box given the uncommon numbers on the set was a HALF SEED, and that hurts the game.
Pokemon doesn’t employ any game development staff outside of Japan, PCL does the grunt work. You cannot expect Play!Pokemon to respond as game development professionals simply because they probably aren’t, by trade. Like most game maintenance companies I also suspect it’s a revolving door (as a game dev engineer myself I know most companies have high turnovers in this industry) and their people likely lack experience. It’s progress, though – as someone who coaches Juniors I know how it goes, and I’d rather see this than nothing.
I don’t fault anyone there but the brass for it, they should be hiring a couple of metagame professionals, or even consultants. I still feel things are improving, it’s just not as efficient as it could, or should be. The DCI is almost 20 years old guys, we should be learning from them a LITTLE faster. :)
Honestly, what I feel is going to kill the game are groups TRYING to turn a profit off of it. This isn’t pro poker. This isn’t a good place for wannabe mafiosi, either. I still don’t even feel Underground is good for the community as a whole. Overall, the loss of Regionals scholarships will hurt, but not much. It’s really not what draws most people in, and it might reduce some of the sketchy stuff I see at every tournament.
My 2 cents.
What do the seeding bits in your first paragraph mean? It’s all over my head, but sounds like something I’d be interested in.
Also, I’m pretty certain that a lot of the people that work at TPCI have game design and development experience. I know for sure that at least Dylan Mayo (Exobyte) does, so there’s that.
I feel that people making money from their hobby, as long as no one is getting hurt, is always a good thing.
Good posting, thanks for reading!
The information I got about no employed developers in North America was straight from the horse’s mouth. ^^ Is Dylan Mayo even still THERE?
As for the seeding bits, it has to do with the varying rarity within a given rarity. For example in BW, you saw a lot more Simisears in the uncommon slot than Professor Junipers.
I’m just glad this is my daughter’s last year of playing. Pokemon has no clue what they’re doing, and the “we’ll fix it as we go” attitude on PokeGym shows the arrogance and lack of player support TPCI brings.
With no scholarships for Regionals, there is no reason for my daughter to attend, since she wins every BR and Cities she attends. Pokemon is alraedy the #3 TCG in the USA, and in a couple of years, will be #4 to some upstart TCG. Magic will always be #1, and Yugioh always seems to be so much more popular than we think.
Perhaps Pokemon should just stick with video games and merchandising, because it’s clear they have no clue how to grow and improve the TCG. Every move they make kicks them square in the a$$, and they still refuse to do anything to help themselves.
First off on the last quarter report Pokemon outsold Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh! I’m pretty sure that makes it number 1. I would also like to point out that EVERYONE has been begging Pokemon to change the system away from ELO for a long time now, and while the new system definitely isn’t perfect, I do like the fact that I won’t have to go into Nats this year think “when should I drop?” Pokemon is simply trying their best to implement the new system, and with the other big changes this year it’s understandable. They have a limited budget, and are doing what they can.
As far as scholarships go, we don’t know the full story yet. I too am a tad upset about Regionals losing these, but that doesn’t mean they’re gone yet, or that there won’t be a significant replacement. Maybe they’ll give out scholarships based on Championship Points? Well if they do that your daughter will definitely get one since she never loses a BR or CC. Another alternative could be more trips, in which case as a College student I still wouldn’t mind the exchange.
Giving out more trips means that 1500-2000 dollars to get to Hawaii is in my pocket for tuition. I’d be making the trip either way. Little things like that you have to keep in mind. I’m not saying the new system is perfect, or that it was handled with the utmost professionalism, but Pokemon is definitely trying to please the vast majority of the community who has been asking for this for awhile now. I think getting hung up on the little things is definitely not the right approach.
Indeed, this new system was almost ten years in “development”…well, lack thereof, mostly. I’m just glad it made it out. This is really a change made more for the players, and the people who are just gaming the system haven’t adapted yet. :)
I hope this season is a good testbed, and that things continue to move forward. If my predictions about 2011-2012 are correct, this is a great season to test a new points system, as the format is probably going to crack up anyway.
Wow. Nice find on the sales figures. Do you have a link to that? (I am honestly very interested)
However, sales v. competition turn out are two very distinct things. I would say turnout is a much better way to gauge game size. In that regard, Pokemon kinda pales in comparison with MTG and is comparable to Yu-gi-oh. The that sales (company reported sales) is not a good indicator is because (1) Pokemon has the rotation that essentially forces some people to buy sealed product, (2) Pokemon has many collectors that try to get sets, and (3) again, Pokemon uses the rotation standard, whereas MTG and YGO allows players to use cards they have had for a LONG time, thus reducing the need for new product purchases.
My mistake, it’s been awhile since I checked the charts, Pokemon is still above Yu-Gi-Oh! though, standing in at #2. I’d have to guess the numbers are somewhat close to Magic: The Gathering too. The numbers tend to bounce around allot, at one point Yu-Gi-Oh! was number 1. Maybe it’s got something to do with how good the current format is in each game? Hmm… Another interesting note is Pokemon sales MUCH better at Mass Retailers as opposed to FLGS’s.
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20740.html
well MTG had a huge headstart over Pokemon so its quite understandable that it has bigger turnout. besides Pokemon TCG also took time to break out of its “kids-only” phase. but fast forward to 2011 it is quite obvious that pokemon TCG is raking in a lot of money and is also steadily growing. I wont be surprised if the $$$ profits from mass retail store sales is actually bigger than hobby channel since the mass retail is more accessible to the general public.
Magic has quite a few various formats, thougha the most popular and played format is Standard, which has a yearly rotation (One core set and a block of 3 sets removed a year). It’s the format used for all major open events (States, Regs, Nats, Worlds), while it, and other formats are used for Pro Tour and Grand Prix events.
Uh… just to mention, there are two ways to look at the quarterly reports. Retail sales i.e. walmart and target and Hobby store sales i.e. where the games are played. In the retail marked yes Pokemon was first by a slim margin but in the hobby market they are around fifth among ccgs. And overall this makes them about #3.
Pokemon outsells those games in big box stores, but as far as hobby stores and general revenue go, I believe it’s still considered the #3 TCG. I’m not sure of all the details of that though, so I won’t argue.
And like I said, if there is some kind of replacement for Regional scholarships, then I’m all for it. I’m simply of the opinion that if they’ve just cut out that support completely, it doesn’t bode well for the game.
I largely agree with you. Sorry that your daughter is quitting, hopefully she can go out on a high note. :D
Thanks for reading/commenting!
Simply put it, any form of profiteering will kill the game, whether is it by the producers to the intermediaries to the players themselves. And it seems in the long run that’s where we’re headed.
The game is all about profit, every game is all about profit. No producer would make the game without making money and no intermediaries would host/distribute the game without making money.
The problem is that Nintendo does not seem to understand that the relationship with players should be symbiotic. Increasing prize support -> more players -> more purchases -> more money.
There’s a difference between profiting, and profiteering. The latter has to do with gaming the competitive system, rigging events, price-fixing between stores, and other unethical/illegal activities. Nintendo can either promote them, police them, or do nothing…and these changes may further encourage it.
A format that’s completely luck based, and a narrow championship bracket (top two gets points at BRs) encourages a lot of cheating.
‘I feel that TPCI employees essentially saying that “we’ll fix
the system as we go along” on the Pokegym is a pretty big slap in the
face. The system should’ve just been implemented next year if
it wasn’t ready, don’t throw out a broken system the day before the
first tournament series.’
This really.
The system was changed on incredibly short notice. In fact the website says it’s still subject to more changes. We still don’t know what the invite structure for Worlds will be, whether the LCQ will exist, or even how many Play Points you need for Nats. Maybe even TPCI doesn’t know these things yet? In which case, this change has come too early.
We could have waited another year for this and been informed about it when they announce the rotation around the time of US Nats.
I’m normally pretty supportive of what TPCI does, but I’m sorry to say that this time I think they have mishandled things. The new points system isn’t right yet, and the way it is being introduced is worrying.
Completely agreed. Great posting Jak, thanks for reading.
I agree with what you’re both saying, but they could have spent as long as they wanted planning this. The first year that it gets put into practice, there will always be problems that they didn’t anticipate cropping up. They kind of have their backs to the wall with having to sort out problems as they arise, to make everything run smoother next year.
As for Championship Points, I doubt they will stay season to season. I mean, they wouldn’t change the system to make you have to play a lot just to make nationals this year, if they were then going to take the “qualify for Worlds once, qualified for every year” approach. Plus if they did that, then the CP’s for winning Worlds would mean nothing.
I can understand why player’s are upset about a lot of this, but for the most part I can see P!P’s reasons for doing it. Except losing the Regionals scholarships, not sure why they’ve done that.
I completely agree with you on scholarships. It is the best reasons for parents to support their juniors and seniors in Pokemon and to even allow them to get started in the game in the first place. Without question it was one of the first things said to us and the first things on our mind by the parents that got us into it. Even if they never win one, it reinforces a positive link between thinking, effort and education. This was a terrible move with what is supposed to be a kid’s game. It might not have much impact on attendance from kids who are already in the game, but it will definitely impact new comers. It should not have been dropped for the junior and senior ranks.
Pokemon said they want to make more destination events, but regionals in Philly last year were nothing special. 2 regionals, 1 nationals, 1 worlds is just fine. Nothing more is needed, and they should spend the money on the scholarships instead or improving the quality of BR and cities. I’m not going to travel to more than 2 regionals or more than 1 to 1 1/2 hours for a general tournament ever, and the regionals or any other “destination event” without scholarship money are just another tournament. Honestly, I can’t see doing more than the closest regional once a year if there is no scholarship money. Not every kid is gunning for worlds at these things, and if they start trying to drive attendance through blackmail with points, it will kill the lower ranks and the lower ages in the ranks especially. Sure the top 10 years old will go, but everyone else will stay home.
Why would I spend money on travel, take the time and interrupt my life to go to
more desitinations to play pokemon for just a medal and booster packs? There is hardly anything special about regionals except a bigger room and more people.
It’s the same game at states if the prize support is the same. Even with
prize support, I would never do more than 2 regionals and nationals for
travel-destination. Who has time or money for that? If we have something more interesting going on that day, guess which one is getting dropped – the travel one!
I have already stopped playing as a pokedad because there is no reason
to support a 2nd deck anymore. Last year I mostly tested rogues to see if
anything would be good for my son, but this year I did plan to try and
play tier 1 or BDIF to try and be competitive, but now there is no reason.
Good posting, thanks for reading!
I don’t agree that eliminating scholarships will ruin the game–but, given what I read here and in other places, I wonder if I’m the only one who feels that way. Just like Kenny, I’ve had the same conversations with parents of juniors at league about scholarships, but mine go a bit differently; I have always stressed that, while scholarships were awarded to the top players at major events, there were very few of them, and the cost of travel, hotel, and the best cards would cut into any money you won. I have always argued to those families that they should get involved because they enjoy playing first, and that scholarships are just gravy. So now we get a little less gravy.
My son also plays little league baseball. He plays with some kids that are very good. But I don’t think many of the parents of those kids imagine that their child will eventually earn NCAA scholarships–the chances are just too low, the number of scholarships too small. But little league baseball isn’t dead. The kids play because it’s fun. And so is Pokémon. I think it will always be awesome to be one of the best Pokémon players, to win Regionals, even after the scholarship money for them is gone. I think this is true for any age group, not just for young kids.
But, based on what I’ve read being posted here and elsewhere, maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see I guess.
[I don’t think many of the parents of those kids imagine that their child will eventually earn NCAA scholarships]
Whoa? I thought like 90% of athletes’ parents thought their kid was in the top 10%.
I agree with you, though, Mr. T.
The whole “Taking away scholarships on a Regional level with no replacement will kill this game.” is actually laughable, especially when followed by, “Not even debatable.”
Here’s the debate. Almost nobody would quit if Regionals scholarships were removed without a replacement. At worst, it would be a bad PR move to not toss the players a bone with some sort of new incentive. The truth is that you’ll complain (perhaps bitterly) about it for a few weeks and then just keep on doing the same thing. That’s just human nature. See popular recent examples in popular society: Facebook changes, Netflix changes, etc.
Good post Ed. I think I agree with you for the most part.
The little thing though is that Netflix is not a great example here. It lost over four times the number of subscribers that it anticipated, it has missed the new subscriber forecast for two months now, and it’s stock fell almost 50% since the announcement… :)
Okay, yeah, maybe not the best example, then. I don’t do Netflix, but I know people that do. All I’ve heard is complaints, but (as far as I know) none have actually taken their money elsewhere. That’s what I was going by, but it seems my impression wasn’t quite in sync with the greater picture. Stock falling isn’t a great indicator, but losing 4x more subscribers than anticipated is significant (unless they only anticipated losing like 10 people).
I was just giving you a hard time :)
We just happened to study Netflix in good depth in my MBA: Investment Strategies Class last semester. That is the only reason why I have keep close tabs on it.
The sentiment of your post was dead on and I think that Facebook is a great example!
Aren’t you the same jackass that thinks “poke-parents” steal championship points from “standard master” players? And now you think players with your sicophant mentality and sense of entitlement is what’s going to make this game grow?
Pokemon is in deep trouble……………….
Give him a break, he’s already explained that he didn’t mean it like that, AND he apologized.
Not really a big fan of your condescending tone, mainly because I do know players that have quit, and are strongly considering quitting because of the Regionals change. Not sure why you claim to know everyone that I know I guess, but…sure.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
I’m not really a big fan of absolutes that can’t possibly be backed up. “will kill” and “not even debatable” don’t just convey a strong opinion in opposition of P!P’s decisions. Essentially, you are claiming that you can see the future. If you can, I’m sure you’ve come across non-believers, and are used to us by now. If you can’t, then, based on past performance, I would suggest betting on Pokemon/Nintendo sticking around for a while.
Do you know people that quit solely based on the Regional scholarship change? I’d assume (which could be a bad move on my part) that there were other factors involved. I don’t claim to know everyone you know. What I said was “almost nobody”, and I’m still betting that the percentage of quitters is quite low.
My guess could turn out to be entirely wrong, but it’s just a guess. I apologize for offending you.
My use of absolutes was because readers tend to respond to those types of things more than ‘It’s my opinion that this may happen’. I feel strongly about the subject, which is why I used those terms. I can see how you could convey them that way, but that still doesn’t excuse a super snarky post on your part.
And yes, I know at least one person who has quit purely because of the Regionals changes.
Not a big deal, just thought that comment was a little out of left field.
[My use of absolutes was because readers tend to respond to those types of things more]
Well, I guess it worked, then. :)
make that 2……………………..
netflix is gonna take a super dive after February, just saying.
We dont pay for Facebook. So complaining, then getting used to it is the norm for free services. We pay for cards. Those of us on sites like this buy cards to play in competitive events. While I am on the side that feels that the loss we will see from the player base will be minimal, it’s still ridiculous for them to be dropping the biggest part of the support from those events.
That leaves what, a trophy, a booster box, and a travel voucher that you only get by going to Nationals, and a two round bye there.
You are sooooooooo wrong. Those comments are very short sighted, and if you don’t think that parents will hold back on driving their kids and pay tolls, hotel, gas, food, and other expenditures, then your comments are ignorant as well.
The kids is what grows this game. Even the majority of you will stop playing at some point, but there will be nobody to relace you. Why? Because the kids have left the game, and there are so many other avenues to occupy ones time.
Kids who don’t even know that Pokemon scholarships exist play in tournaments. Really the only people who are going to quit are bitter people with a false sense of entitlement but not enough intelligence to win anything anyway.
Great post!
Firstly, I completely agree that players shouldn’t play mainly to win scholarships, as you’re probably going to be at a loss either way. However, when I have talked to parents about it I’ve always phrased it in more of a “Yes, you’ll go negative, but at least you’ll have the chance to get value off of it, unlike most other hobbies”
I would also argue that for a lot of people, the gravy we get is significantly less.
Good point in your second paragraph, I definitely agree on that.
Thanks for reading/commenting!
Oh you Yanks. “Pokemon will die outside of Japan[because there are no scholarships at regionals]”. There are no scholarships for Regionals in Europe, only for Nationals. And still the game is very much alive.
I see your point, but our Regionals are also around the same size of a lot of European Nationals, so there’s more effort being put in.
Thanks for reading/commenting!
Yeah, I know what you mean. The ‘States is huge. I’m having to drive three hours to the closest BR here in Texas.
I didn’t see exactly what the TCPI employees said on Pokegym (if someone has a link their comments, let me know), but honestly I give them a lot of credit for doing SOMETHING, and with a big change like this, sometimes you do have to wait and see how it goes.
They aren’t psychic. If they knew the perfect system, we’d have it in place already. I don’t think anyone knows the best system or tournament structure. How else are they going to improve things unless they try stuff out? Yeah it sucks that we’re kind of “guinea pigs,” but what other option is there? Keep banging our head against the Elo system and hope it all of a sudden works? The whole collective Pokemon competitive scene is a living and complex beast… I don’t know if there is any way to simulate it.
Yes, initially the point system is going to look out of whack, but that’s assuming tournaments are going to be the same competition level they were at last year. That’s obviously not the case now, with big name players being serious about Battle Roads for the first time since… well, probably since the inception of Battle Roads. The first year of Battle Roads I know I went to a ton, and then realized they weren’t so important. They are now relevant, which is kinda cool. It’ll help keep interest high throughout the whole season.
I’d give the new system a chance and try to exploit it if you can… that’ll only help get it fixed quicker. People exploiting Elo is what caused this change.
Regarding scholarships…
I highly doubt their removal from Regionals will “kill” the game, and that’s mainly because of Pokemon TCG Online. PTCGO is still in infancy and has a change to become massive. TPCI obviously is invested in and committed to this game if they’ve gone to the lengths to finally get that going. (It only took them 10+ years, hah.)
PTCGO is one of the main reasons I think this game still has a bright future. J-Wittz has mentioned to me before about how the number of Pokemon TCG collectors GREATLY outweighs the number of actual players. I don’t know if many people realize that.
Pokemon was VERY smart about the online codes, putting them in every booster pack. A kid who’s a collector gets a booster pack, decides to redeem their online code for a free virtual booster pack (what kid wouldn’t want a FREE second pack?), sees they can play with their online cards, and slowly gets acclimated into the game. It’s pretty genius.
We aren’t going to see immediate growth from this (I mean it’s only been out like a couple months), but over time, PTCGO is going to get a lot more people playing the game.
Is it selfish of TPCI if they are maybe using scholarship money to develop PTCGO instead (or for holding more tournaments) to grow the game? Yeah maybe. But I think they are doing their best to make decisions where everyone wins.
Obviously the more people playing the game, the more money they make. But the more people playing the game, the more incentive they’ve got to keep the game fun and rewarding for us, the players. Give it time and keep voicing your opinion to TPCI… I think we’ll all win in the long run.
A post so long, deserves a like!
Good posting Adam. I disagree with a lot of it, but you make some very good points. Thanks for reading!
TyRam’s ZPS matchup is ANYTHING but favorable.
40-60 at best. I’ve play ZPS since Nats, ad have gone like 20-2 against TyRam. At BR, I got 2-0 against TyRam, and no TyRams made top cut, even though my meta is all TyRam. Everyone was running it, but the top cut was made up of the 4 people not running TyRam (MegaZone, 2x Stage 1 varients, Me with ZPS).
Nice job on the Top Cut!
It would seem as though that tournament was atypical. tyRam may have a slighlty unfavorable match-up against ZPST, but many people have shown that it is very good against Stage 1s and very solid against PrimeTime.
Keep Top Cutting!
Sure, it has good matchups in MegaZone. But against, Stage 1s, it’s actually a really hard matchup. ZPS has more wins than TyRam for a reason.
Yeah, I never said that tyRam was hands down better than ZPST. I said that is might be slightly unfavorable. If you dig a little deeper into the stats you find that ZPST has a total of 39 top 4s, tyRam has 35. That is pretty close. You also find that in the events where ZPST and tyRam went head to head in the Top 4, they came out pretty close to 50/50.
It would seem (after digging further than just what got first) that there are three big time decks right now. ZPST has 39 Top 4s, tyRam has 35 Top 4s, and PrimeTime has 27 Top 4s. No other deck has more than 17 Top 4s.
From this I would say that yes ZPST has a slight (but not huge) advantage over tyRam. I would also say that tyRam is considerably better than Stage 1s.
*As a note, the information is from the “what won” tread on the Gym. I went through each post and tallied the scores in Excel.
**I lumped everything with Yanmega/Donphan as the core into the Stage 1s category. There were some other things like Yanmega/Cinccino that I put into it’s own category. If you add those miscellaneous ones to the Stage 1 count, it still does not surpass PrimeTime in Top 4s.
I know you didn’t. You said that it can beat Stage 1s. TyRam is doing so well because of Worlds hype. ZPS had no Worlds hype, and is doing better. That means something. It means that even though, most people playing competitively are playing TyRam (Proof: Deck fix places), ZPS has more wins.
Now, I’m not going to argue anymore about this.
And I’ve seen every post on that thread.
In my opinion, you’re wrong.
Now, I’m not going to argue anymore about this.
And I’ve seen every post on that thread.
I’ve had pretty much the opposite testing results as you. It comes down to a Reshiram vs. Zekrom fight, and although Afterburner damage is relevant, the Zekrom player dealing 40 to itself each turn is what swings the match-up in TyRam’s favor, imo.
There’s a bit more to it but I don’t have the time to get into it right now. In short, I’d say it’s probably 60/40 for Tyram.
Thanks for reading!
I think we read completely different comments from TCPi about the new system.
The comments I read didn’t say “the system isn’t ready, we’ll fix it as we go.” What I read was “We have this new system that you all have been asking for. It’s ready to go and all worked out, but we’re still trying to smooth out the backend of things. However, instead of throwing this change at you half way through the season, we’re letting you know now that it’s coming and some of what you can expect. We admit that we’re not perfect and that the system may need to be tweaked, but that would be true of any changes we put out. We’re sorry that we can’t have every single tiny thing completely worked out, but we want to put it out now so that you can see what we’re doing and tell us what you think of it.”
Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle of those two viewpoints?
Most likely, yes.
Regardless, I just don’t think that this system should’ve been rolled out if it wasn’t ready. That’s the bottom line in my mind. Also, I dunno how many people have been asking for a ratings change as most of the people I know were pretty much fine with the rating system, or maybe wanted small changes. I could be wrong about that, though.
Thanks for reading/commenting!
Systems like these will always be trial and error. The fact is, they dont have a mass group of people to test this out with. Bugs will always have to be worked out, and the only way to do that is to release it live, and go from there. Any bugs come up, you fix it. You dont know how the players will use and abuse a system before it’s released. You hope to get everything worked out in the first year with minimal casulaties, and you hope the years to come go smoothly.
While I do not agree that the lack of scholarships will kill the game, I do have something interesting to point out.
Let’s look at the WoW TCG.
-This game has been around competitively since 2007.
-The game was under the management of Upper Deck (UD).
-The game was growing decently, but Blizzard was unsatisfied and thus removed the rights from UD and gave them to Cryptozonic in 2010. (similar to how Nintendo took the rights from WotC and kept them for themselves)
-Cryptozonic promptly announced that the prize pool for Worlds was going to be $250,000+. First place gets $50,000 cash, 2nd gets $25,000, etc. on top of the Swag. The game has been gaining momentum over this year, fast. (These prize pools puts it on comparable levels with MTG)
What has Nintendo done the last few years? Decreased prize support. One company seems to see what needs to be done, while the other seems to not see it.
As the saying goes, “you have to spend money to make money.”
Great post about WOW.
I’ll probably flesh this out in a longer article if people want it, but moreso than Regional scholarships actually killing the game, I think it’s an indicator of things to come. All we’ve seen is reduced prize support in the past few years, and I honestly believe that it’s the people at TPCI doing what they can to justify keeping the TCG around to the higher-ups at Nintendo. If things keep going the way they are, I think in the next few years the TCG will be a league-only thing.
Good posting, thanks for reading!
Why do we complain after we complained for them to change it? lawlz
So I understand, and I dont understand, why they would drop the scholarship support.
-Cutting corners to help support online play. The amount they save from cutting the scholarship money from lower events shouldnt even compare to the operating costs of the online play. There arent that many regionals every year, and there arent 50 state champs every year (I know this, as Alabama didnt have one two years ago). What they would save would be around what? like $30,000-40,000? (I really dont feel like doing the math right now, so I guesstimated) That probably wouldnt cover the salary of one person working on it.
-To be on par with other games (Like the aforementioned Magic). My main problem is the in the Nationals difference between the two games. Magics is invite only, Pokemons isnt. Earning an invite to that event is a BIG deal. A two round bye is great, but not even close to being on the same page. Product usnt that big of a deal to me personally. Pokemon doesnt have enough good cards per set to make boxes worth anything to me.
Special items like playmants, deckboxes, alt art versions of current staples, etc should be added IN THE LEAST with getting rid of this. The items are highly collectible, and extremely easy to sell for quite a bit of $$$. They can also produce these items for MUCH less than the money given out. Those who would prefer the money could just sell the stuff.
I don’t have an opinion either way as to whether the removal of scholarships at the Regional level will “kill” the game (o.k. I do: I don’t think it will).
However, I’ve long lamented that to raise money, all P!P has to do is make and market it’s own merchandise (deck boxes, playmats, sleeves, hats, etc) at a reasonable price to the players at events like they do at Worlds.
Cut out the middle man (like Upper Deck) and sell direct through their own online store or at events.
Think about it, they don’t make any money from a 2011 World playmat someone payed $12 at the event and then turning it around and selling for $75 on eBay(!?!) All that revenue goes to someone else instead of back to P!P/TCPi to keep things like scholarships available for example.
The HeartGold/SoulSilver playmat is a perfect example: $15-20 is a reasonable price for that especially if attached to “a portion of the price goes to help support future Pokemon scholarship winners.” That’s a win/win in my book.
(I think the Black/White playmat was sheer design laziness. They really could have (SHOULD have) made that look more “awesome” for the price they wanted for it.)
As a Poke Dad, there would be untold opportunity at every BR, cities, etc, to sell items that could go to directly into the pockets of TCPi instead of whatever percentage they get from Upper Deck or other companies. I see numerous examples of playmats, sleeves, deck boxes, etc from Japan that are imported and sold at high cost ($60 for a playmat? Seriously?) on eBay that TCPi could make available through an online store at a reasonable price AND at the marquee events like Regionals, Nationals and Worlds.
Seems like a pretty simple solution to me but I’ve never had 5 minutes with the head of the company to explain simple business 101.
ReshiPhlosion:
I agree with you in every way possible. I’m still not a huge fan of the deck. It happens to run well and is super consistent, but overall, any good player is usually going to find a way to beat it with relative ease, and is one of the easier decks to meta against. It can’t even effectively counter the anti-meta decks because of how tight the lists are; “siding” in stuff for matchups you may or may not go against by cutting consistency is just horrible. However, the Zek matchup is no better than 55-45 at best, probably more along the lines of 50-50. It really just comes down to who runs better TBH (least skill-intensive matchup in format, IMO). :/
Scholarships Killing/Not Killing the Game/Player Base:
Although I can’t exactly speak for my parents, I feel like the scholarships and trips that were available were a major reason why I was allowed to play and, essentially, “waste” my time for so long. Had either of those systems not been in place, I think I would’ve been lucky to be able to go to Pokemon League every week, let alone driving halfway across the state for Battle Roads/Citys/Gym Challenges. I feel like many parents have this sort of sentiment, and while they may or may not realize that there is certainly a possibility of going negative, the fact that there is some sort of reward besides a congratulations or sense of victory is very attractive. Unless there is some sort of new system to fix this issue, forcing money on only Nats and Worlds, easily the most difficult events in the game, is going to cause a lot of parents to question the value of time, cards, travel etc. they’re putting into this game.
New Champion Point System Implementation:
While I’m not a particularly huge fan of this seemingly haphazard implementation, I really see no other way they could have gone about putting this new system in motion. Unless they legitimately devoted resources to finding statistics and made small case studies, the only way to actually see if the system works is to look at the final results. Although this is certainly a flawed way of going about things, it certainly is a cheap and, relatively speaking, one of the most efficient ways.
DISCLAIMER: Yes I am a VGC player first and foremost (as a matter of fact I don’t even have a complete deck), so this may have some bias to it, but please listen to what I have to say. (and your responses will likely be biased, too, because everyone here is mainly a TCG player)
You say this: ‘“Hey, if you drive several hours and win a 300-person event you’ll have to take time off of work/school to be flown to an event where you could possibly win money!” It just won’t work.’ You know, it actually DOES work. In the VGC (a smaller playerbase right now, but it’s been increasing by leaps and bounds each year) that’s EXACTLY what happens. Guess what? Upwards of 300 people still show up for each regional, and not just locals. The closest regional I’ve ever attended was 7 hours away, the farthest the 13 hour drive to Indianapolis for Nationals 10 and 11. PEOPLE STILL GO. I highly doubt that taking away scholarships will kill the game. It’s free to enter, so the issues that some people have seem to be unfounded. “I WENT TO A FREE EVENT AND WON AND THEY DID NOT GIVE ME MONEY. THIS IS GOING TO KILL THE GAME.” Just from looking at VGC, which, being much smaller than TCG, should’ve died by now from your view of “no scholarships=bad for the game,” instead, it’s thrived.
tl;dr it’s a free event, taking out something that probably cost the company a lot of money in the first place won’t kill it