Mark A. HicksHello 6P amigos. I am here to talk Next Destinies. My Cities season was very short. I only attended one event. Life got in the way for pretty much all of the other events. I did, however, make the cut with tyRam. I ran a 1-1 Ninetales HS and the lines of three that I have come to love.
Let’s talk about those lines of three. What are they you might ask? Well, I got very frustrated with my decklists being so clogged up. So a while ago (basically right before Autumn Battle Roads) I decided to see what it would be like to not run 4 Junk Arm in almost every deck. So, I moved it down to three and realized that I did not miss the 4th at all.
In the end, I have been running a lot of the utility Trainers (Junk Arm, PlusPower, Eviolite, Rocky Helmet, Catcher, etc) in multiples of three instead of the more traditional four. It has been great and a great way to conserve some space. Well, enough for that rant, moving on…
As mentioned earlier, I will be focusing on our State’s format for this article. Let me be real up front with you guys: the decklists in this article are in a very rough state. They are supposed to be more like guidelines for you all to take and test, like spring boards for your deck building needs (that is if you are stumped). This is not to say that I have not been testing these decks, I have. They are just not at a tournament level yet. I will be back in the future with more polished lists, especially as States get closer.
Before we jump right into the decks, I want to talk generally about some things (cards, decisions, etc) that Next Destinies will force us to consider.
Deck Building 101: Pokémon Search
BulbapediaIf you have been playing with any type of respectable decklist have been running 4 Pokémon Collector. (I know that is a slight exaggeration. There is also Dual Ball and Twins, etc.) Also, most decklists run 4 Pokémon Communication, unless you are running an all Basic deck like ZPST or 6C. Basically, this eliminated 8 decisions from our deck building process. This was the core of almost every good list.
Now, some people (myself included) has been advocating a 3/1 Communication/Professor Elm’s Training Method split to help a lot of decks with the Trainer lock match up, but this was never widespread. Because of this uniformity, some skill in deck building had been removed from the game.
Next Destinies changes that paradigm. We are getting three cards (most likely) that all search out Pokémon and can run as their own engine.
Level Ball: This card lets you search your deck and retrieve one Pokémon with 90 or less HP.
Heavy Ball: This card lets you search you deck and retrieve one Pokémon with a three or more Retreat Cost.
Ultra Ball: This card lets you discard two cards from your hand to search and retrieve any one Pokémon from the deck.
(OK, so I thought Ultra Ball was going to be in the set for sure, but the boys at TTC are skeptical. Regardless, we still have some interesting decisions to make without it. However, if it is not in ND, just take this little section, file it in the back of your mind, and come back to it at the beginning of the summer.)
Dual Ball: We already have this card, but it completes the usable “ball engine” (as many are calling it). This lets you flip two coins and for each heads search your deck for a Basic Pokémon and put it in your hand.
So, now we have choices for our Pokémon search slots. Obviously certain decks will utilize different cards, but the choice will be up to you. This is a great thing for the game. Anytime that you reintroduce skill into the game, the game is better off. You might not think that these 8 slots are that big of a deal, but the choices can make or break a deck in the coming format.
The Dragons, Genies, and Musketeers
pokemon-paradijs.comThe recent format has been relatively controlled, or at least heavily influenced, by what have been called the “big basics.” The question is, are these cards playable in the era of the EXs?
In my opinion, the short answer is, yes. Well, at least some of them. Let’s take a look (brief look) at these cards.
Virizion NVI: Can the preferred starter to 6C hold up? Maybe. This really depends on which versions of other decks stay prevalent. This one is very dependent on how the format develops. If there are plenty of set up Pokémon to pick on (Celebi Prime, Tynamo, Cyndaquil, Solosis, Oddish ,etc), then Virizon could still be useful.
Terrakion NVI: This one also depends on how the meta shapes up. The only reason why it is good now, is because of Magnezone Prime and Zekrom BLW. So, if Magnezone, Zekrom, and Zekrom-EX stay popular, then Terrakion will have a space to operate.
Cobalion NVI: This is the one to stock up on. Cobalion is the one musketeer that can stand on its own. It resists Mewtwo EX. It locks your opponents out of attacking, or at least forces them into retreating. With all EXs having two or more retreat and other things like Magnezone having high costs, having to retreat a lot is rough. In addition, this can still increase its effective HP to very substantial levels with Eviolite and Special Metal.
Tornadus EPO: See Virizion. If there are plenty of little things to pick off, then it still has a place. If not, this will see a decline in play.
Thundurus EPO/Landorus NVI: In my opinion, both of these will not survive. They have too small amount of health. They also do not hit consistently hard enough to have staying power.
Kyurem NVI: I think that the reign of Kyurem is coming to a close. Heck, by the end of Cities, it was already coming to an end as it was being replaced with Fighting types in the Electrode decks. Thirty spread to EXs is just not enough. Also, 30 damage might not be enough to soften up the big boys for KOs later in the game. You would need to get two or three Glaciates off to do any type of significant damage built up. If there are a lot of set up Pokémon, then maybe it has a place.
Zekrom BLW: I see this in one or two decks, but it struggles to stand on its own. Zekrom does 2HKO any EX. That is the good news. The bad news is that it hurts itself. Its recoil is a lot. It also has 3 Energy sitting on it, so Mewtwo EX will only need DCE to score the KO, maybe one more Energy if the Zekrom has Eviolite.
Reshiram BLW: This is the Dragon that has a shot. It already does not struggle to stream Reshiram. Also, the Energy discard on Blue Flare is advantageous. This is because you effectively take off 40 damage from the board for Mewtwo EX. So, Mewtwo (assuming 1 Afterburner damage on the first Reshiram) would need three Energy to use Psycho Drive to score the 1HKO, or you would need 4 Energy on Mewtwo EX to use X-Ball for a 1HKO.
Now, this quickly becomes very energy extensive for Mewtwo EX to keep scoring 1HKOs, so it could have a chance. If you play Reshiram correctly you will be able to orchestrate these 1 for 1 trades with Mewtwo EX at least twice a game and possibly take 2 for 1 trades to finish the game off.
The Stadiums
Skyarrow Bridge: This card reduces the Retreat Cost of any Basic Pokémon by C. This will be a huge deal for a lot of decks. Just expect to see this card played often.
BulbapediaPokémon Center: This card could see some play in a couple ways.
1. It could be a counter stadium to Skyarrow Bridge for non-Basic decks. It would be a way to remove that advantage for the Basics.
2. It can help to conserve Pokémon in the prize exchange. If you are playing a Typhlosion deck, you could use Afterburner to the bench. Then use Pokémon Center to heal the damage off. Then you retreat/Switch into the active to attack. This could save you from a 1HKO several times.
In the alternative you could use this to conserve stuff like Magnezone. You could attack with Magnezone. Then Magnezone would take damage from your opponent’s attack. Assuming Magnezone lives, you could send it to the bench to heal for a couple turns. Of course your opponent could decided to catcher it back out, but then you have forced them to attack a relatively weak threat (at that moment) and ignore a different attacker.
Cards of Interest
Prism Energy
Stock up on this card.
There has been some confusion about its translation. It will most likely, as reported to date, be just like Rainbow Energy, except it will work on Basics and it will not inflict damage. With all the big EXs being Basics and the current 6C components, this card will be seen a lot.
Shaymin EX
This card is also very controversial among the general population. Some think that it is too big of a risk. If you start with it, you will likely be down 2 Prizes early. Also, you cannot use it in the mid-game or else you will lose it, and the 2 Prizes with it. However, if your opponent is down to 1 Prize, it becomes very good. If you have planned it well, you can N, then maybe use something like lost Lost Remover, then get Shaymin EX rolling.
If you hit that combo you have likely wrecked your opponent’s board state and his hand. Often times this will get you back into the game and ready to swing for 180 per turn as long as your opponent is hand locked. I really think that a lot of decks could use Shaymin EX.
Electrode Prime
pokemon-paradijs.comIn my opinion, Electrode actually becomes more viable as an Energy accelerator. If you are playing with EXs you effectively don’t fall behind. They still have to take out 3 Pokémon-EX to take the last prize. If you don’t use Electrode, they still only have to KO 3 Pokémon-EX. So, either way you are ok. Also, Electrode just makes N and Shaymin EX better. I don’t have a deck fleshed out for it, yet, but I think there is potential.
Musharna NDE
Ah, a slightly less good Uxie LV.X. For those of you who don’t know, Musharna lets you look at the top two cards of your deck and put one into your hand. It only has 100 HP, a three retreat, and Psychic weakness. Most people have written this off as too big of a Catcher target.
However, in the era of EXs and big time attackers, can you really afford to take out the support and ignore the attackers? Therefore, I think that this card will see play in some decks. I specifically think this card will see play in Vileplume UD decks.
Random Receiver
This is just another great consistency card coming out in Next Destinies. The card reads: “Reveal cards from your deck until you reach a Supporter card. Put that card in your hand, and shuffle the cards you revealed into your deck.”
We saw how good Pokégear 3.0 was after people figured out how to use it. Random Receiver might force you to rethink the support lines in your deck to maximize this card.
EXP Share
This card is going to be a 61st card. It works for virtually every deck. But, there are just too many other things that our decks need. This card allows you to move an Energy from your active Pokémon to the Pokémon-EXP Share is attached to, when the active is KO’d. This is a great option, I just don’t think it will warrant a spot over other things.
Mewtwo EX
I’ll keep this very simple. Do I think Mewtwo EX is as good as people are saying? No. Do I think that almost every deck will run one copy? Yes. Mewtwo EX is very good. However, there are plenty of things that give Mewtwo EX problems. However, the most efficient counter to Mewtwo EX is to drop a Mewtwo EX + DCE of your own and take the KO.
Zekrom-EX
This is the second best EX in the set. The thing is a monster. It has a massive 180 HP. It hits for 150 and a double discard. It actually counters Mewtwo EX pretty well. The only problem is that there are plenty of capable Fighting Types in the format to counter Zekrom-EX.
Lost Remover
Let’s say hello to a potential MVP of the format. We will have DCE, Special Dark, Special Metal, Rainbow, Prism, and Rescue Energy in the format. The EX decks and big Basic decks will likely run 4 Rainbow and 4 Prism. Many other decks will run 2-ish Rescue Energy for recovery. This little card could become almost as disruptive as Catcher in this format.
Decks on Deck
Well, enough rambling on about specific cards. Let’s move onto decks. As I said earlier, these are just some of the ideas I am toying around with right now. They are not in tournament ready stages. Obviously, we do not even have Next Destinies yet. So, I am offering these ideas (and some lists) as a starting point for your (and my) deck building and testing purposes.
Furthermore, these decks are divided into three categories: competitive, semi-competitive, and fun decks. These breakdowns reflect what I think of the potential of each deck. However, within each division there is no particular order to the decks. So, just because a deck is listed first, I do not necessarily think that is the best deck, etc.
Also, I have Ultra Ball in some of these decks. For the most part you can just take out the Ultra Balls and put in Communications if we do not get UB in this set.
Competitive Decks
tyRam 2.0
|
Pokémon – 16 1 Cleffa HS/CL |
Trainers – 33 3 N 3 Junk Arm 2 Ultra Ball (or Pokémon Communication) |
Energy – 11 11 R |
By in large this is just a standard tyRam list. I honestly believe that this is one of the current decks that will not need a huge remake to survive in the post-ND metagame. This deck did have at least some success in a Next Destinies meta according to Esa. Let me explain why I think this:
1. Reshiram is actually pretty solid against Mewtwo EX. Reshiram discards two Energy after using Blue Flare. So, Mewtwo EX has to use its second attack or use between 4 and 5 Energy to get the 1HKO on Reshiram with X-Ball.
Now, since a lot of the time Mewtwo EX will be using non-P Energies to pay for its attack, Reshiram will not have to fear Psycho Drive very often. This essentially enables Reshiram to orchestrate 1 or 2 one for one exchanges with Mewtwo EX during a game, a 2 Prize card advantage.
2. The deck is still very consistent and self-sustaining. With EXs in the format, N is going to become more powerful. tyRam loves N.
3. After your orchestrate the trade in point one, you can use Mewtwo EX or Reshiram-EX to take the last 2 Prizes.
4. Even against Zekrom-EX (the second best EX), you can often orchestrate 2 for 1 trades often; that is if Zekrom can manage to continuously stream those Strong Volt attacks.
However, Zekrom-EX’s Energy manipulation is Eelektrik. The Eel struggles to facilitate a stream of attacks when the active is discarding Energy. (The Thunderdome can use Energy from anywhere on the field with Lost Burn. That allows the Thunderdome to stream attacks.)
5. Energy denial is going to be a big thing in the coming format. Specifically, denying DCE is going to be a HUGE deal (and the other special Energy to an extent). So, if you just got attacked by Zekrom-EX and it discarded two L Energy, you simply attack with Typhlosion Prime and remove the DCE to strand the Zekrom-EX.
Ultra Ball is extremely strong in this deck because you need to discard R Energy. I do not think it is strong enough to play a full play set because this deck also burns through cards.
Anyway, a few things I would consider doing to this deck is:
- Incorporate Lost Remover somewhere.
- Possibly not run Reshiram-EX and run either 4 Reshiram or 2 Mewtwo EX.
- You might even run Zekrom-EX and either Lightning or Prism Energy instead of Mewtwo EX and Double Colorless Energy.
The Thunderdome
|
Pokémon – 19 1 Cleffa HS/CL |
Trainers – 27 4 N 2 PONT 4 Ultra Ball (or Pokémon Communication) 3 Junk Arm 2 Switch |
Energy – 14 12 L |
“The Thunderdome will be the best deck at States” – Pram, TTC Episode 21, 0:56:09
pokemon-paradijs.comWell, there you have it. One very prominent player is calling this the best deck at States 2012. Is he right? In short, I don’t think he is wrong. Let’s talk about what makes The Thunderdome so strong:
- You have non-EX main attackers. Zekrom can often take easy prizes on non-Pokémon-EX and apply early game pressure. Then, Magnezone can 1HKO any Pokémon-EX with 4 Energy. That is 2 Prizes for 4 energy. That is a HUGE deal.
- The deck has internal consistency with Magnezone.
- The deck has access to the two best Pokémon-EX we will have.
I think this list is fairly self-explanatory. Here are a few things I would consider:
- Does the Eelektrik line need to be thicker? If you lose an early Tynamo and the other is prized, this deck falls apart.
- This deck needs some type of recovery. The most obvious place would be one Pokémon for a super rod. Possibly a Magnemite could be cut.
I fully expect to see this deck get a lot of play in at least the first weekend of States.
ZPST + Mewtwo EX
|
Pokémon – 12 |
Trainers – 37 3 Junk Arm 3 Eviolite |
Energy – 11 8 L |
Here is a simple ZPST list. I’m not going to go into too much depth with it. ZPST aims to hit for a lot of damage on T1 with Zekrom or Tornadus. Then you score the turn two KO on whatever you damaged turn 1. If it was an EX you just took a 2 Prize lead. Then you just hang on for dear life.
Big Basics
There will be a 6C type of deck with the new EXs. The deck will have Cobalion and Mewtwo EX. The rest will be just filler. I expect to see the deck run 4 Rainbow and 4 Prism. It will also run Terrakion to deal with Magnezone and Zekrom-EX and Zekrom.
Durant
|
Pokémon – 5 1 Rotom UD |
Trainers – 43 4 N 2 Twins
4 Junk Arm 4 Level Ball (these have replaced Dual ball) 3 Eviolite 3 Revive
|
Energy – 12 6 Basic M 4 Special Metal 2 Prism |
Ah, the little ant that could. Even if the new Heatmor (which 1HKOs Durant for 1 C Energy) is released in Next Destinies this deck will be played and it will do well. People want to talk about Heatmor killing the deck, well here’s what I have to say about that:
A single copy of Heatmor can easily be prized.- Heatmor could easily be milled.
- Good Durant players already expect to lose a Durant per turn. So, this is not really anything new.
Now that we have talked about Heatmor, let’s talk about the EXs:
- Durant resists Mewtwo EX, uses SP Metal, and uses Eviolite. So, it will take either a Psycho Drive or a 5 energy X-Ball to score the 1HKO.
- Durant has a ton of room to tech it out. This means that you get to use a high Lost Remover count. That alone can possibly win a game against the EX field.
- The other EXs are slow to set up.
Overall, the list above is pretty consistent. The big difference between that list and most others is the inclusion of Level Ball over Dual Ball. Dual Ball can get you more Pokémon, but Level Ball is a guaranteed Pokémon. I will take the guaranteed one over possible two almost every time.
Durant will be a player in the next meta. It is both competitive and cheap.
The Truth
I am not as sold on the truth as others are, but I see the potential with Regigigas-EX, Mewtwo EX, and Reshiram-EX + Victini. I’m sure others will devote more time to fleshing this out.
I do think that The Truth will get better once Kyurem EX is released.
Celebi Prime/Mewtwo EX
|
Pokémon – 12 1 Shaymin EX 3 Alternative attacker |
Trainers – 36 4 N
4 Junk Arm 3 Eviolite
|
Energy – 12 8 G |
This is the hype deck of the next format. People have been talking about this deck since it was on Esa’s site.
The basic idea is to use Skyarrow bridge and Celebi’s Power to accelerate energy onto Mewtwo EX.
However, I am not so sold on this. Here’s why:
1. Celebi is too easy to kill.
2. Mewtwo EX is very dangerous to play as the main attacker. It is 1HKO too easily by too many things. Furthermore, it struggles to 1HKO too much stuff without massive energy commitments.
So, that is why we have three slots committed to alternative attackers. We need something that can attack for C Energy or G Energy. It needs to be able to hit for at least 80 or 90 damage. It would be nice if it was not an Pokémon-EX.
The list of candidate are: Tornadus, Regigigas-EX, Druddigon NVI, etc. I will let you all sort through this.
In all, I am not a big fan of this deck. I think that it will be solid, but I think that there are much better uses for Mewtwo EX.
Purple Lighting
So, I got bored of calling this Zekrom/Eelektrik/blah, blah, blah. Thus, Purple Lightning.
|
Pokémon – 13 3 Alternative attacker 1 Cleffa HS/CL |
Trainers – 34
3 Ultra Ball (or Pokémon Communicaiton) 3 Junk Arm 3 Rocky Helmet (or Eviolite) 2 Switch |
Energy – 13 10 L |
pokemon-paradijs.comFor those of you familiar with this deck, it ran Zekrom/Eeletrik/Tornadus this past season. I know that a several people thought that this deck never saw its potential realized. However, it is a new day.
This deck basically runs like the Thunderdome, just with less internal consistency because of no Magneonze Prime. However, now the deck has access to Zekrom-EX and Mewtwo EX to deal a lot of damage where Zekrom came up shot last season.
I clearly prefer an aggressive build with this deck, opting to run Rocky Helmet over Eviolite. However, many people will be advocates of Eviolite. There is nothing wrong with that. I would rather orchestrate return 1HKOs with Rocky Helmet and PlusPower than tank with Eviolite.
Obviously we need to have another attacker and that is where this deck is flexible. You can run Tornadus for early game pressure or Zekrom for more damage in the early game. I think that I would run Zekrom.
If you decided to run Zekrom, the decision to run Rocky Helmet becomes even more controversial. I would argue that the 20 kick back from Zekrom, with Eviolite, is enough to get Zekrom KOd. So, you might as well play Rocky Helmet and do more damage to your opponent’s Pokémon while being KOd. In the end, this is just an experimental list and you need to test it out yourself.
Semi-Competitive (or Decks with Potential)
VVV
|
Pokémon – 23 1 Gloom UD 1 Cleffa HS/CL 1 Pichu HS 1 Shaymin EX |
Trainers – 26 4 Twins 4 N 2 Professor Elm’s Training Method
|
Energy – 11 8 W 3 G |
This deck received quite a bit of hype and never really lived up to it. However, it was a solid deck. In the Next Destinies meta, it will remain right where it was.
If you keep the game within 3 Prizes early, you have a good shot at winning. You will be able to attack with Vanilluxe for KOs. If these KOs are against Pokémon-EX, you will get 2 Prizes. Then they will 1HKO your Vanilluxe for 1 Prize. You might be able to orchestrate this trade a couple times. Then when they have only 1 Prize left, you can drop the N and Shaymin EX to swing for 180 damage per turn and hopefully stage the comeback.
That situation is a rather complicated one to bring about, but it gives you a fighting shot.
MagneBoar
|
Pokémon – 20 3 Tepig BLW Promo BW07 2 Emboar BLW 20 2-2 RDL 1 Cleffa HS/CL |
Trainers – 27 3 Twins 3 N
3 Junk Arm |
Energy – 13 9 R 4 L |
You can bet your bottom dollar that people will be trying to break RDL in the next format. With Ozone Buster you get 3 Prizes from KOing a single Mewtwo EX. If they make the mistake of dropping two Mewtwo EX, you can use Catcher and take another 3 Prizes. That is INSANE.
Furthermore, I think the best deck to utilize RDL in is MagneBoar. You have plenty of alterative attackers that can deal with the EXs. Magnezone can 1HKO any of them. Reshiram can trade once or twice with EXs. You also have Mewtwo EX to play against the EXs along with Inferno Fandango to hit huge amounts of power with X-Ball.
Mewtwo EX/Gardy
I do not have a list for this. However, some people are giving this deck considerable hype. In my opinion, this is not going to be a great deck unless you come up with a non-Psychic attacker. If you don’t get that, Gardy has only 110 HP. It is a lot of work to set up for a very fragile supporter. Also, you have the same problem with Mewtwo EX being very energy extensive and too easily KOd.
This deck will be played, but I’m not entirely sold on how good it will be.
Scizor Prime/Skarmory UD/Something
This deck could have some success, but it will be highly dependent on how the metagame turns out. If the meta s filled with Mewtwo EX and Special Energies, then Scizor will be in excellent shape. If the meta is filled with Magnezone Prime, Scizor will struggle.
Skarmory is a great starter because it can pull Energy out of the deck for a turn or two and pull it on Scizor. Then you can use Metal Scizors to 2HKO anything in the format and have protection for Special Energy. There is some potential there in the EX meta.
Fun Decks (Pet Decks)
So, now I have two decks that I want to toss in for free. These two decks are near and dear to my heart. If the meta in your area is just right, these might be able to deliver you to a .500 record or better.
Leafeon UD/Espeon Prime/Amoonguss NDE
|
Pokémon – 17 3 Foongus NVI 3 Amoonguss NDE 1 Shaymin EX 1 Cleffa HS/CL |
Trainers – 33 4 N 3 Junk Arm |
Energy – 10 5 P 5 G |
Why could this deck be good? Well, let’s talk about that:
1. EXs do not like status conditions. Ammongus inflicts both Poison and Confusion the turn it hits the board. The previous incarnation of this deck used Roserade UL to accomplish those conditions. However, Amoonguss is better because it does not eat your Energy attachment.
2. Espeon Prime devastates Mewtwo EX. For one energy you do 200 damage with Espeon to Mewtwo EX. You accomplish this through dropping Amoonguss, then using Miasma Wind from Leafeon through Espeon’s Ability.
3. You are still dealing 110 damage to any other Pokémon in the format and forcing them to either retreat, evolve, or risk taking more damage with confusion. Furthermore, with more and more disruption cards in the format you can really mess with your opponent’s hand and board position.
The main reason why this deck will struggle is because everything gets 1HKOd by a lot of attackers.
Sharpedo/Victini/Slowking/Attackers
I wrote an article about this fun deck here. This thing can be a very good deck. Strip Bare is the most devastating attack in the game, period. That is, if you hit the double heads. Let’s look at a list.
|
Pokémon – 18 2 Slowpoke HS/CL 2 Slowking HS/CL 2 Shaymin EX 1 Cleffa HS/CL 1 Pichu HS |
Trainers – 32 4 N
3 Junk Arm 2 Switch |
Energy – 10 4 D 2 G |
pokemon-paradijs.comThis list has focused on getting the turn two Strip Bare attempt. Then it focuses on hitting a turn 3 Mewtwo EX to put pressure of their field.
You notice that I put in a 2/2 Mewtwo EX, Shaymin EX line for the attackers. The deck could cut 2 Mewtwo EX and one Shaymin EX to utilize a different attacker. For example, you could also cut the Pichu and make room for a Cinccino BLW line.
However, the Skaymin EX must stay in the deck. I have talked a lot about a late game N + Shaymin EX combo. This deck’s glimmering hope is its ability to abuse Shaymin EX’s comeback potential. In the past, if you whiffed the early game (first three turns) Stripe Bare, you usually failed to compete in the game.
Now, you can go down 5 Prizes and still have a shot in the game. You have a chance because Slowking is the best partner for N. You can play N and then dictate what your opponent draws for the rest of the game. So, as long as the single card your opponent draws off N is not another Supporter, you can literally lock your opponent out of the game by dictating the top decks. That is a spectacular thing.
Furthermore, you can use Lost Remover and Crushing Hammer to destroy their board position. So, with the top deck locked and poor board position you created for your opponent, you can safely play Shaymin EX to sweep the game. This is a very intricate situation to develop, but when you do hit it, it is priceless.
Conclusion
So, basically I think that the EXs will have a significant impact on the meta. I do think that new decks will emerge. However, I really feel that (at least at the first weekend) decks which can utilize non-EX attacks successfully will have the advantage.
Hey I think im first comment…guess thats what happens when you check the site every 3 hours or so and barely sleep lol …maybe im not first tho who knows
well anyhow awesome article ive been waiting for theese lists..most of them i had my own take on ive been testing my own build of ‘purple lightning’ (like the name btw) and its pretty beast even against magnezone cuz Zekrom EX OHKO’s it ..still has some tough matches but it is fun..thanks for the awesome article
this aint youtube, player.
Aint? Someone never got an education in proper Grammar.
Grammar iz nomore, my friend.
Aint is in the dictionary, look it up.
To be technichal, Aint is not in the dictionary. Ain’t, however, is.
I was going to put an apostrophe, but I wasn’t certain.
Thanks
I dont think Zekrom EX is the 2nd best EX in this set. Zekrom EX requires you to discard 2 energies attached to it and without the ability of electric decks to attach energies to their active pokemon you will be pressed in reloading the Zekrom EX.
Reshiram EX i think should be ranked higher than Zekrom EX since it has 3 alternative engines on how to load it up (Emboar and Typhlosion Prime being the notable 2). And this time Reshiram EX doenst require discarding any energy.
That’s cool. I definitely see where you are coming from. However, consider the following:
1) It does not say what type of energy must be discarded. So you could discard the Colorless energy requirements. So, you can steam attacks with Zekrom EX if you partner it with Typhlosion or use DCE to reload the active.
2) With Eelektrik you can run a high count of Switch and use the bench space to set up Zekrom EXs.
3) Moving away from Zekrom EX toward Reshiram EX, 50 recoil damage is just a ton. Reshiram effectively has a 50% chance of being no better than a Regular Reshiram/Zekrom after it attacks once. With Victini, it still has a 25% change of taking damage. That is a serious liability since it gives two prizes.
As always, thanks for your comments. I was really hoping to get conversation rolling with this article in a way that has been lacking on the front page. Comments such as yours do exactly that.
Thanks
You’d never want to discard DCEs.
It gives energy for Eel that is why.
Um, what did Garchomp discard… It is not always the case that DCE is not what you want to discard.
Anyway, I was just demonstrating how it could manage to stay active and stream attacks. For example, you have two Eeles on the bench and a DCE in hand, but no Switch. You can attack and discard the Lightning Energy, but then you will be stuck active next turn without a way to attack with it again. Or you could chose (a difficult choice) to discard a DCE that can be replaced last turn.
Saying things like. “you’d never want to discard DCEs” is way too narrow minded.
What Airhawk said, and also that people can and will use Typhlosion to pump up Zek. (Pokemon Center removes the two damage)
I think a Zekrom EX tech to a Reshiplosion deck is better than a Typhlosion Prime tech to a Zekrom deck if you plan to do this.
BW Zekrom also had recoil damage and it was 100% chances of having recoil damage but guess what it still dominated. so im not buying the recoil argument.
yes its true you may discard the DCE attached to it (since the card reads discard 2 energies and not 2 energy cards ) but you will still be at the mercy of having DCE in your hand. You’re screwed if one or more of them are prized or if you have a bad hand.
so probably we can say that both Reshiram EX and Zekrom EX are tied for 2nd place?
Obviously discarding the DCE would be a tough choice. But, if you have another DCE and no other way to power up Zekrom EX next turn, discarding the DCE is an appealing choice. See my comment bellow for a better response to this discarding DCE argument.
As for the recoil, Zekrom did not dominate the last format. Pre-NVI Reshiram was the best deck. Post NVI the other Big Basics had a better time and Magnezone and Chandy dominated. That is just the cold hard facts from actual results.
Reshiram EX will be good, no doubt. Just not as good as Zekrom EX. Also, Zekrom’s recoil did not directly result in giving your opponent two prizes. Reshiram EX’s recoil will most of the time. The EX mechanic alters the analogy.
Pre-NVI Reshiram was better because it had a good engine to reload it. But this time with Reshiram EX you dont need to reload. Imagine a turn 2 Reshiram EX fully powered by Emboar’s ability isnt that scary?
That’s 150 damage turn after turn until it gets knocked out. And you can use this turn 2 Reshiram EX to kill any EXes in the field early before they get powered up.
Great point. However, chances are (or at least 50% chance) that the Reshiram EX will be taken out before your third turn. 130 HP is just not a lot anymore.
you’re forgetting eviolite and pokemon center. eviolite will reduce recoil by 20 and pokemon center will heal it by 20 (that is if pokemon center is released with ND).
Another great point.
However, Pokemon Center only works if Reshiram lasts until your next turn. Even at that, asking for Reshiram EX, Tepig, Eviolite, Emboar, 2 Fire Energy, and 1 DCE (or just 4 Fire Energy) is a tall task for turn two.
With all these new EX’s, 130 damage (even 150) is not at all an uncommon (yes uncommon) milestone that pokemon can deal out. Mewtwo EX will easily OHKO Reshi, any regular Reshi’s with PlusPower/Zekrom (EX very much too) will be able to return KO. Zekrom EX has a longer survival chance then Reshiram, and with the techs, from Ty to Ele, those 2 energies discarded can easily be gotten back. Zekrom EX will be by far much better then Reshiram EX.
Remember Typhlosion Prime uses Fire energy from the discard pile dont you think that tech will make the deck clunky since not only do you need to incorporate all the Typhlosion Prime lines, rare candy and fire energy into your deck?
No, I won’t be that clunky. Typhlosion/Magnezone already works pretty well. Now, you can just take out the Magnezone line, keep in the the Lightning Energies, and add Zekrom EX. Personally, I think that running Zekrom EX with Eelektrik might be a little better, but running Zekrom EX Typhlosion is going to be really good also.
Don’t you think you’re being a little pedantic?
This is the second best EX in the set. The thing is a monster. It has a massive 180 HP. It hits for 150 and a double discard. It actually counters Mewtwo EX pretty well. The only problem is that there are plenty of capable Fighting Types in the format to counter Zekrom EX.
… No way.
Your Durant list is bad, your Celebi Mewtwo list is bad, and the rest are sub-par.
See response above, not sure why it didn’t nest into this one.
Also, the Truth is not great right now. But it will be played. Also, it will get much better once Kyurem EX comes out. Denying Special Energy will be a solid way to go. Also, Gigigas EX is the perfect damage absorber to sit the bench and then come out to swing for a lot once or twice.
oops double post
@ In_My_Opinion: That’s fine, everyone will have their own opinions about the EXs. I firmly believe that Zekrom EX is the second best all purpose EX. Shaymin EX gives it a run for it’s money in the end game. Mewtwo EX is first. Gigas EX really relies on your opponent too much for its damage output. Reshiram EX has a very risky recoil. I’m blanking on the one that I am missing…
Anyway, some lists are rough, I readily admitted that (even in the article). Others, are not too bad.
I would however, appreciate constructive critiques on why you think the lists are bad. For example, the Durant list is solid and fast. The only thing in that deck that should be even partially contentious is the Collector/Level Ball counts. Everything else is pretty standard. Perhaps you are talking about not having Cobalion. Well that is a more sophisticated tech. These lists are supposed to be starting points for people to work from.
I will also disagree (unless you can definitively and convincingly tell me why) that the Celebi list is really bad. It is built for consistency (which it will provide) and to have some trainers to work with. The only real big difference between it an other lists floating around is the amount of Energy in comparison to Trainers.
Anyway, the lists are meant to be a jumping off point. I said they were not great (although, they are certainly not all “sub-par”).
4 Durant NVI
1 Rotom UD
Trainers – 43
4 Pokémon Collector
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
4 N
2 Twins
4 Junk Arm
4 Level Ball (these have replaced Dual ball)
4 Lost Remover
3 Random Receiver
3 Eviolite
3 Crushing Hammer
3 Revive
3 Pokemon Catcher
1 Super Rod
1 Skyarrow Bridge
Energy – 12
6 Basic Metal
4 Special Metal
2 Prism
Ok. Super Rod should be replaced wit Revive because it is more important and a one card process. Skyarrow Bridge is making it easier for the Pokemon you drag up to retreat. N gives more cards to your opponent. Don’t give me “they won’t always have a big hand”, because if the people who you are playing against are good then they will. They will hold their hand, and PONT it all in. Juniper is much better, especially considering that this is an all basic deck. You do not need all of those Metals, I would add a 4th Crushing Hammer. Just because Special Energies will have a large presence in the outcoming format does not mean you can forget about basic energies, which are very important in decks such as Celebi/Mewtwo.
Pokemon – 12
4 Celebi Prime
4 Mewtwo EX
1 Shaymin EX
3 Alternative attacker
Trainers – 36
4 Professor Oak’s New Theory
4 N
3 Professor Juniper
3 Pokémon Collector
4 Dual Ball
4 Junk Arm
3 Pokemon Catcher
3 Eviolite
2 Random Receiver
2 Lost Remover
2 PlusPower
2 Skyarrow Bridge
Energy – 12
8 Grass
4 Double Colorless
You will never want to use 4 copies of Mewtwo-EX. I believe others have said this above too. you use Dual Ball or Collector. Use one or the other. You’ll need more than three alternate attackers, and Tornadus is needed. You Supporter lines are bad because you use 4 N, ok, and then 4 PONT. Judge is much better because it messes up the opponent. I would, however, opt for another two Random Receiver, a 4th Juniper (4 is staple in basic decks), and a Switch. You NEED switch to get Celebi active T1. Also, no Shaymin is a problem. Shaymin’s energy movement has won me many games. Terrakion is another alternative attacker, and is great against Gigas, Magnezone and your “second best EX in the set” (which is actually 3rd or 4th). You need another Skyarrow. Just too important.
Rocky Helmet is not very good in Eel/Zek, Sage over PONT in EelZone, etc.
TyRam looks good, but sadly that is the only ideal list.
Edit: The Truth is bad because Kyurem EX is one shotted by Cobalion, and I don’t care if you manage to discard a Special Energy. Gigas is ohko’d by Terrakion. All EXs have downsides.
Nice comment.
Eel/Zek
1) Do not knock Rocky Helmet it Eel/Zek. In the era of EX’s, a 150 HP Zekrom is not great. However, forcing you opponent’s 170-80 hp EX down to 150-60 is a very, very good trade.
Eel/Zone
2) Sage’s v. PONT is all preference in Eel/Zone. This is even more true when Ultra Ball comes out because you will just have even more options to discard energy with. Also, the Thunderdome struggles mightily with Durant. Running a PONT/Sage’s split helps this a lot.
Celebi/Mewtwo EX
3) Big time oversight on my part about Switch in Celebi/Mew. Not really sure what I was thinking when I transposed this list into my article.
4) However, that deck is predicated on Mewtwo EX. You want 3 or 4. You want to open with one in hand. Furthermore, you don’t have to play all of them down.
5) Shaymin can help, but then you are playing it in a more reactive way. With Celebi the energy can go anywhere. So, be proactive with it.
6) Terrakion is nice, but slow. You need two Prism (or fighting drops). I guarantee you that no good opponent is going to let you use that Terrakion more than once, or the first time if you have to place it down to get the energy on it. It is a huge target once it hits the field.
7) I’m cool with removing Collector or Dual Ball, but running a split is not unheard of or necessarily bad. Many ran a split in ZPST (during its heyday) and that worked great.
8) Judge is also a personal preference. I (any many others) would rather be as proactive in setting up as possible. If that is your style, then PONT > Judge.
Durant
9) Skyarrow bridge only makes it easier for basics to retreat. The deck is so flexible that if there are no evolutions to drag up, just don’t play it down. Also, it is invaluable when you might get stuck.
10) I assure you the energy count is right in the comfort zone of many great lists. Some have up to 15, some a few less. It’s a pretty petty thing to pick out.
11) With Durant being popular, the difference in the mirror match can routinely be who plays PONT vs. who plays Juniper. It is only a one card difference and you don’t have to discard anything. Furthermore, the choice to play PONT does not drastically effect the match up against any other deck.
12) N is widely considered a great card for Durant. The end game usability is great. Also, just like you said, opponent’s tend to hold N or PONT in hand. Well, if you preemptively play your N you can clear that from their hand.
13) You seem to indicate that I completely ignored Basic Energies. There are still 3 Crushing Hammer and 4 Junk Arm. That is plenty enough to combat Basic Energy. Most builds only dedicate 6 slots to Crushing Hammer/ Lost Remover. A lot of great lists only ran 2 Lost Remover to 4 Crushing Hammer last format. I balanced those numbers. Again, hardly a “bad” choice worthy of criticism.
14) 4 Revive is a fine choice. However, 3/1 Revive, Super Rod is just fine also. Especially with the emphasis on basic search cards. Getting that Durant out of your deck from Super Rod is not difficult.
Great comment and great discussion.
You blanked on Kyurem EX, which gives The Truth life in this meta. And I personally like reshiram w/Fliptini better than Zekrom. I can see Emboar/Reshi EX getting play. 150/turn is nothing to sneeze at, and recoil is minimal with Fliptini. And are we even getting Random Receiver with this set?
I think we are getting the Receiver. I could be wrong though.
Ah, I was under the impression that we were not getting Kyurem EX. Sorry about that. I should have gone more in-depth about The Truth then. I mentioned that Kyurem EX is very good in it. I just didn’t think we were getting it.
Thanks!
Um, what does Random Reciever do? You never really explained. :P
Other than that, though, I loved this article. I really need to test my deck for States as it is far from perfect, so thanks a ton. :) Can’t wait to see all the “refined” lists, as well. :D
PS: 3 really is the magic number. Normally I run 3 Collector, 3 Communication, 3 Junk Arm, and 3 Catcher. It just seems to be the perfect amount for me. ;)
Sorry. I guess I should have explained Random Receiver. It let’s you reveal cards off the top of your deck until you hit a supporter. You put that supporter in your hand and then shuffle the rest of the cards back into your deck.
Ah, thank you. The question now is, do you have to show the other cards to your opponent? (I hate having to bother you with this stuff…. :P)
No problem at all. Yes, you have to show your cards to your opponent. So, it could be a detriment if you have some super secret tech. Basically, anytime you a card says “reveal” you have to show your opponent.
Ah, OK, thank you. :)
Hey I just wanted to say goodbye thanks everyone for being such a great community and I’ll truly miss it. PM me on Pokegym I have the same username if you want to tell me anything or say bye :( I’m to busy to do Pokemon now, and finally thanks Adam for the best website ever.
sorry to see you go. hopefully you’ll be back :)
I hope you’re trolling… see you around dude!
I simply loved and enjoyed this article. It was detailed to (IMHO) perfection, not too much detail that would diminish the point of readers’ imaginations but with enough info to get the mind joggling. Your lists while sub-par to some are easy to understand and at least resemble a basic skeleton.
Really liking the name Purple Lightning. That’s invention right there.
Also, I was looking forward to something about CAKE/COKE, was almost getting disappointed when I scrolled back up and saw that Electrode has its own nice little section dedicated to him. Righteousness is served. :D
Yeah, like I said, I do not have any type of post Next Destinies list fleshed out for Electorde Prime. I do think that it could be even better than it is now though.
As for the deck lists, I will still contend that none of them are “sub-par.” Here is why:
1) We do not have a definite set list yet.
2) None of them are “bad.” It is just that none of them are tournament ready and totally optimized.
3) Going off number 2, there is a difference between sup-par and sub-optimal. I will completely say that those are sub-optimal, but not sub-par.
4) They are intentionally basic/early development lists as a place to kick start the front page discussion on Next Destinies decks.
Thanks for the comment!
Definitely, in fact in no way I meant your lists were sub-par (hence the word “some” in there). The lists can easily form the backbone of most decks, as always the T/S/S is entirely preferential. Onward to the discussion, I’m all for a special thread for discussion of ND decks. Not sure if the thread already exist, but a lot can come out from it, especially after this article gave a great layout for it.
I’m hoping Electrode shines though, there’s potential but it just needs good new partners in crime. Looking for more ideas besides the usual CAKE/COKE/LAKE deck styles.
And where do you leave chandelure/vileplume?
Well to be completely honest, I don’t think it will be that good in the post ND meta. 60 damage drops + a possible attack is just not a lot anymore. Also, while Chandy could be solid against Mewtwo EX, it will likely just get wrecked by most of the other ones. I could be completely wrong on this point, but that is just what I feel about it.
I agree with airhawk. By the time you get chandelures out your opponent will have fully powered EX that can OHKO the chandelures.
Mewtwo EX with Trode Prime.
Also whoever can find a way to get consistent turn 2 Vileplume wins.
Seriously, what is it with people and putting 4 Mewtwo EX in lists?
Seriously. LOL.Pretty ridiculous. 1-2 MAX.
I love how its very existence will stop it being as powerful as it could be.
But with everyone playing it that should even out its power. I’ve thrown at least 2 in every deck and if you have one benched and one active your opponent is weary to play their mewtwo to attack yours for fear of DCE in your hand
I feel like 2-3 is the way to go in Mewtwo based decks, otherwise like 1-2 as a counter/tech.
I agree. If the deck is based solely on Mewtwo EX (not a great idea, IMO), there needs to be at least 3. If not 1 maybe 2 as a counter tech. Most of the time, I think I would only go with 1.
Great article, thank you!
But, why do you think, Thundurus wont be the best play anymore? There will be lots of Tornadus in the metagame cause of Mew2/Celebi/Tornadus, ZPST with Tornadus, Zekrom/Eel with Tornadus, etc. Do you dont think, Thundurus will be a great early game tech to hit Tornadus with weakness? In addition, its a card which supports Eels a lot and it dont need DCEs, which can be lostet with lost remover.
Great comment.
I think that Thunderous was already seeing a decline in play. It spiked there for a little bit with the Thunderdome, but then more and more people were leaning back towards two Zekrom as the alternative attacker. The best thing that Thunderous did was get energy into the discard, bringing energy from the deck was just an added bonus. When Ultra Ball comes out, the deck will have another great way to get energy into the discard. Thus, Thunderous will be less important.
Furthermore, in the Thunderdome there is really only two, maybe three slots for basic attackers. We know that one of those slots will be Mewtwo EX. The other will likely be regular Zekrom or Zekrom EX. The list is just so tight.
I just don’t think that it adds enough to any deck, anymore.
There’s no such card as “random reciever”. You’re probably thinking of X-transciever where you flip a coin allowing you to search for any supporter.
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Random_Receiver_(Reshiram_EX_Strength_Deck_14)
o rly?
Sorry. I should have been clear. Random Receiver will be in Next Destinies. We do not have it right now.
My bad too, I meant to put a translation in the article but forgot about it. I’ll add it in right now so everyone is on the same page.
Love the Sharpedo idea. Just friggin love it.
It is a great feeling when it works. You opponent is just like, “oooo I only have one more prize to take.” Then drop Shaymin EX, energy mover (forgot to mention Shaymin or Energy Exchanger), Lost Remover (other field disruption), N, Second Sight (Slowking). GG.