Hello SixPrizers, Stephan here again with a look at what to expect at State Championships. We can know this because the ECC (European Challenge Cup) has ended, and this usually affects the U.S. metagame drastically. I will be analyzing what decks will do well, what decks are just not good enough to cut it, and hopefully everyone will learn something from it. But, first, here are the results from the top 32.
Zekrom-EX, Eelektrik NVI, Thundurus EPO, Mewtwo-EX and Terrakion NVI- Zekrom, Mewtwo-EX and Eelektrik
- ??????????????????????
- Cobalion, Kyurem, Kyurem-EX, Terrakion and Electrode Prime
- Zekrom-EX, Eelektrik, Zebstrika and Mewtwo-EX
- Zekrom, Eelektrik and Mewtwo-EX
- Zekrom, Eelektrik and Zebstrika
- Chandelure
- Celebi Prime, Mewtwo-EX and Tornadus
- Magnezone Prime, Eelektrik and Terrakion
- Zekrom, Eelektrik and Mewtwo-EX
- Celebi Prime, Mewtwo-EX and Tornadus
- Donphan Prime, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem
- Magnezone Prime, Zekrom-EX and Eelektrik
- Magnezone Prime and Typhlosion Prime
- Magnezone Prime, Zekrom-EX and Eelektrik
- Zekrom and Eelektrik
- Celebi Prime and Mewtwo-EX
- Celebi Prime, Mewtwo-EX and Tornadus
Mew Prime, Yanmega Prime, Chandelure NDE 20, Crobat Prime, Jumpluff HS and Terrakion- Zekrom, Eelektrik and Zebstrika
- The Truth
- Zekrom-EX, Thundurus EPO, Eelektrik, Terrakion and Mewtwo-EX
- Zekrom, Eelektrik, Zebstrika NDE and Articuno NDE
- Zekrom and Eelektrik
- Durant
- Magnezone Prime and Eelektrik
- Magnezone Prime and Yanmega Prime
- Durant and Shaymin-EX
- Magnezone Prime, Eelektrik and Mewtwo-EX
- Reshiram, Reshiram-EX and Typhlosion Prime
- Durant
So, let’s break down what the top 32 consisted of:
- 11 Zekrom and Eels
- 5 Magnezone and Eels
- 4 CMT
3 Durant- 1 CaKE
- 1 Donphan and Dragons
- 1 Typhlosion Prime and Magnezone Prime
- 1 Truth
- 1 Magnezone/Yanmega
- 1 Reshiphlosion
- 1 Chandelure
- 1 Rogue
- 1 ?????????
So, what can we gather from this?
- Zekrom/Eels is very popular and doing very well.
- Magnezone/Eels is still really good.
- CMT (Shall we just call it Cement? Ce from Celebi, Me from Mewtwo-EX and T from Tornadus, just missing N.) is most definitely not all hype.
- CaKE might still be viable.
- Terrakion seems to be a popular tech.
And that’s about it. So, let’s have a detailed review of all of this.
Why is Zekrom/Eels doing so well?
Well, it can hit moderately fast, do consistent damage, and hit huge with Zekrom-EX. It has many tech options, including Terrakion, Thundurus and Zebstrika. Let’s look at all of these three techs:
pokemon-paradijs.comTerrakion is a good option because it swings the mirror match slightly in your favor as it can 1HKO anything in an opposing Zekrom/Eels, save for an Eviolited Zekrom-EX. It does have some major disadvantages as well. Nightmares have nightmares about starting with him. And, after you attack with him, he is stuck active not hitting for very much, unless you get Land Crush powered up. This is the ultimate risk, but it can pay off.
I don’t even know why this is listed under techs. In my opinion, every Zekrom/Eels should run two or three of these, because they make great starters. Turn 1, attach an Energy and attack with Charge. Turn 2, attach another Energy and attack for 80, putting Energy in the discard for Dynamotor at the same time. I run three in my Zekrom/Eels.
Zebstrika NDE
One-sided Item lock in the form of another attacker? Awesome! Until you realize that he has only 90 HP and is a Stage 1. If you can get him up turn 2, you could prevent Trainers from then on until your opponent KOs him, which could give you a massive step up. Again, this is a card that could help you or hurt you.
As you can see, it is a very versatile deck with many options that I didn’t list because I feel as though they are less viable. Just small stuff like Zapdos NDE, Luxray NDE, and Raichu Prime. Not the best stuff, just possibilities.
Magnezone/Eels is still really good. Why?
Because Magnezone can 1HKO every EX, it is a really good choice for the current meta. It gives Mewtwo-EX a really hard time, because it can just Lost Burn energy and make it so X Ball does less damage. It has built-in draw, the ability to run most of the techs that Zekrom/Eels can run, but it is a bit slower. I personally think this deck will continue to be BDIF, and it just got better because of Zekrom-EX.
CMT isn’t all hype.
pokemon-paradijs.comOf the top 32, four were CMT. It is so good because it can donk, have an okay mid to late game, run several techs, hit for high damage, and be very hard to KO. It can run things like Shaymin-EX, Shaymin UL and Terrakion. Let’s go over the basic (pun intended) strategy of the deck, and then run through the techs really fast.
The Strategy
Start with Celebi Prime, use Forest Breath to attach an Energy to either Mewtwo-EX or Tornadus, hopefully have a DCE and Skyarrow Bridge by using cards like PONT and Professor Juniper to go through your deck, and hit for 60 or 80 damage turn 1. It has a good mid-late game because at this point you can hit for massive damage using X Ball. It is pretty simple, can hit hard and fast, and can stop your opponent from setting up.
Techs
Shaymin-EX
With Shaymin-EX’s Revenge Blast, you can hit for up to 180 if your opponent has taken 5 Prize cards. That is enough to 1HKO any non-Eviolited EX. And, you don’t even have to add Prism/Rainbow/Grass energy. It has a problem though, just like any other great card. You never want to start with him because then your opponent could take 2 Prizes really fast, even by turn 2. It could be a double-edged sword, but I really like it in this deck.
I am going to make this really concise. It can allow you to save Energy from the likes of a Mewtwo-EX with six or seven Energy attached, but just like Shaymin-EX, you never want to start with it.
Terrakion
Terrakion could be teched in to help with Magnezone, but then you have to run Prism Energy, and it could get really clunky, so use it at your own risk.
What? CaKE might still be viable? Are you crazy Stephan?
pokemon-paradijs.comYes and yes. CaKE might still be viable and I am quite crazy. Why is CaKE still viable? It can counter just about anything. It can counter Magnezone with Terrakion. It can counter The Truth-EX with Terrakion and Cobalion. It can counter Reshiboar-EX and Reshiphlosion-EX with Kyurem/Kyurem-EX.
It is still quite good, only having a bad matchup against Durant, and you could add V-Create Victini if your meta is full of that bug.
Why was Terrakion a popular tech?
Most of this has been listed above, but ultimately because Lightning was the most-played type of the day, and Terrakion gave it a hard time. I do not see it being quite as big in the U.S., but we will see
What can we EXpect from States?
Well, obviously tons of Mewtwo-EX and Zekrom/Eels. There should be plenty of Durant around as well. Maybe Reshiboar-EX and Tyram-EX. Chandelure should see some play. Magnezone/Eels should continue to be good. Let’s look at what tiers these decks are on. Forgive me if I miss 1-2 of them, but here they are.
Tier 1
- Zekrom/Eels
- Magnezone/Eels
- Durant
Tier 1.5
Reshiboar-EX- Magnezone/Typhlosion
- Reshiphlosion
- CMT
- Chandelure
- The Truth
- Mewtwo-EX/Gardevoir NDE
- ZPST
Tier 2
- Mew Prime variants
- Bearplume
- CaKE (for now, could become tier 1.5)
- VVV
- 6C
- Gothitelle/Reuniclus
- Gothitelle/Gardevoir
- Magneboar
- Donphan/Dragons
- Megazord
- Magnezone/Yanmega
roleplay4life.deviantart.comI would test against every decklisted above, because you never know what to expect. I think the metagame is really diverse, and this should be a great State Championships. I would at least test against everything tier 1.5 and up. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this article, and I hope it helps you at States. Until next time, keep testing!
My tip?
Save literally seconds of playtesting time by not bothering with ‘Bearplume’.
Once you take out the recycled ECC info and the (very questionable) tier list, there isn’t all that much substance to this article.
It is most definitely an improvement on the one we had yesterday though.
I have seen Beartic being played. Not a very good deck, but you can’t classify i lower than Tier 2, because there is no lower Tier. I never said that it was going to be BDIF, I just said that it might see some play.
You could say that about every previous deck, whether it’s “my parents won’t buy me new cards,” “I put too much money into this deck to give it up,” or “I love it too much to leave it.” You may as well say that we could see MegaZorD, Donchamp, Blastzel, or some Leafeon variant. (But this is mostly Juniors or Seniors I think? Rarely see it in Masters, except at the absolutely bottom tables.)
And you know what? Some people are crazy enough to play those. I thought about Leafeon/Roserade for States, and would have played it if it dodn’t have such low HP.
Yes, some are. Even I almost bought some Roserade and Houndoom, until deciding that the EX cards outclassed it way too much and it’d be a waste of money, otherwise it still stood up to a lot before them. But all I was pointing out was that Bearplume didn’t exactly belong on the tier list with VVV, GardyGoth, and Mew Prime. Actually I just noticed Megazord is on there, in the same tier as 6C? 6C’s now possibly barely playable with their low damage output against EX cards, but it blew Megazord out of the water months ago. The fact that you said test against everything above is confusing, as I’ve only ever seen one Megazord in real life and online, and less than 10 Bearplume. Meta difference maybe, but I doubt I’ll see more than one old deck at States.
Depending on who you ask, there’s a tier 3: decks that could be playable if not for the specific meta ripping them apart. That’s about where these old decks would go. And decks that aren’t playable no matter what meta just get left off entirely.
Yes, we have Megazord in our meta. 6C is bad now too, so that is why they are on the same Tier.
I don’t mean this to be an insult, but rather a question: Why is 6C bad? It counter almost anything you’re up against, if you use a wide variety of techs.
It’s considered bad because it doesn’t have direct/obvious Energy acceleration, has less recovery than other decks, low HP attackers, low damage output, can’t easily tech in an EX and power it up quickly (except Shaymin and Mewtwo, which every deck can), and is ripped apart by every EX.
It was good last format. Now it’s just phased out since it can’t keep up well. Even Electrode variants are fading out slowly, since it’s becoming too much risk vs consistency.
Considered bad BY YOU.
I think a lot of people would say it’s bad. Reahi ex and zek ex can ohko most of 6C too easily. It can’t keep energy on the field very good.
Ah. I see what you mean.
There is a lower tier just made for ‘BearPlume’
It’s called Tier Obsolete Crap
I agree, I just do think that some people will play it. Maybe they just like it, or maybe they can’t manage to get other cards.
“It’s called Tier Obsolete Crap”
Ha ha! baby_mario you beast :)
Last time I checked, there were numbers with a greater value then 2. It’s hard to ban infinite numbers.
Beartic IS a good deck for kids, ahaha. My seven year old cousin took fourth at cities with a really-quickly thrown together beartic deck. For seniors and masters, it’s not gonna cut it for sure.
Mikael Jacobs at 3rd after Swiss played Celebi/Tornadus/Mewtwo/Shaymin EX.
If that’s true, then it would have had 5 top cut spots, just as much as magnezone and two more than durant. I think it’s absurd that magnezone/eels would be “tier 1” while celebi is “tier 1.5” (whatever that means). Especially when that means lumping celebi in with typhlosion and reshiboar, which both get stomped by a good celebi build and are terribly inconsistent in this format.
I can promise you that it was CMT he was playing. I know him personally ;)
Yes, I know, I do not think that Magnezone/Eel is a Tier 1. I think Zekrom/Eel/M2 is BDIF, with Durant and CMT comes 2nd. Durant beats Zekrom, Zekrom beats CMT, and there’s a 50/50 between Durant and CMT.
A T2 Brave Fire to the face is more frightening than a T1 Hurricane or X-Ball, and even more scary than Zekeels’s T2 120, and Reshiboar has the potential to pull it of, that is why I put it at Tier 1.5. It has a lot of potential, and, I am using tis WHOLE season getting it to work. When you play it right, it even beats some or the Tier 1 decks. I know that CMT seems Tier 1, but look at how far some of the Tier 2 decks got, and I get the feeling it was overrepresented.
A turn two Brave Fire may seem more frightening but it is still an equal output. Let’s say X-Ball hits for 80 T1. Then you Brave Fire, which is not an OHKO unless you use multiple Plus Powers. Then X-Ball next turn would hit for up to 200 damage combined with the 4 on Reshiram and the Forest Breath + two energy attachments (which could be DCEs).
Also, Hurricane can do 80 T1 and another 80 T2, which is 160 (more than Brave Fire). Reshi may have Eviolite but you get the point.
And who says you will always have a T2 Emboar/Typhlosion? A Celebi + Mewtwo is much easier to set up than a stage two.
CMT/ExTC should be tier 1 and Reshiboar EX should be relegated to rogue since i dont expect Reshiboar EX to be played a lot. Besides players need to get the right build for Reshiboar EX to make it competitive.
Reshiboar will never be below Tier 1.5 as long as I am breathing. Say what you will, but I will not let it fall below.
Back in the real world, it has been tier 2 at best for the whole of its existence.
Reshiboar’s record of tournament success is not very distinguished is it?
Well, now that we have Reshiram-EX, we don’t know that. It could do well now because you don’t need Emboar the whole game, just enough to power up a Reshi-EX. And Durant is around and is demolished by fires.
Wait . . . you are seriously saying that you only need Emboar to power up ONE Reshi-EX?
Oh my . . . I think we’re done here.
I never said that. It is less dependant on having Emboar around though, and can survive a few turns without him.
The tier list is kind of off imho. Magnezone/Eels is good but it is outclassed by Zekrom/Eels, so I would consider that tier 1.5. CMT is a great, unbelievably fast deck that deserves a tier one spot. ZPST should be tier two as it is outclassed by Zekrom/Eels (has a better late game and can still start attacking by turn two which isn’t bad) and CMT (imo a better donk deck as it is more consistant). Also Chandelure doesn’t seem too good right now, as well as Truth and and Typhlosion/Magnezone. Pretty much any deck that has to set up two stage twos for it to be stable is meh right now with all the powerful EXs hitting for 80+ damage by turn 1 or 2.
Yeah Zekrom/Eels is pretty much BDIF. Although Durant seems to be lacking lately. Turn two Zekrom is a bad situation when you are paying Durant. If you are lucky with Crushing Hammer flips then yeah, Durant has the advantage, but you aren’t always going to be lucky with Crushing Hammer flips. If Zekrom/Eels doesn’t bother with regular Zek it still is a struggle. Zekrom EX and Mewtwo with enough energies can both overpower Durant.
wheres donphan and regi’s? and shaymin ex is mvp!
Regi-who?
Donphan is dead since a long time ago, you have been out for too much time, my friend.
And even if i like shaymin a lot, hes definitly not MVP.
Not without N, at least.
Donphan isn’t dead yet because what weakness do dark and lightning decks commonly share come Dark Explorers?
The weakness Terrakion hits for.
Terrakion is good, but Donphan has unmatched tanking abilites against lightning. Terrakion is easier to tech, but Donphan is better if you build a deck around it.
And get one-shot by ZekEX with Plus, while it needs 3 Plus to OHKO ZekEX with Earthquake. Combine that with its four retreat cost which just plain sucks and the fact that it is one-shot by anything doing 140, which isn’t that hard, and I’d say Terrakion is the better call.
MVP? Most Violent Pokemon? Most Vegatable Pokemon? Most Vegitarian Pokemon? Most Vivid Pokemon? I think this one most describes it, because it is a terrible starter and Catcher bait, Most Volnerable Pokemon?
*Vulnerable
Please learn to spell in addition to counting.
Thank You
Whoops, thanks. Sorry about that. And what do you mean about counting?
To everyone who says my Tiers are off: everyone is going to dissagree about what deck belongs on what Tier. Everyone’s opinion is different.
I’m addressing this not as an intent to pick on you, so if it sounds like that, then it’s not my intent. But while technically tiers are socially constructed you can say that “everyone is going to [disagree on] what deck belongs on what tier”, the unfortunate problem is that the claim is a garbage argumentative statement.
The statement is akin to “it’s based on how you interpret it” – these are subjective arguments that attempt to legitimise objective and quantified arguments through subjective reasoning. While technically you can say that, it’s not an effective statement because it’s not a parsimonious reason nor is it effective reasoning. For example, I can say “I think this article is utter garbage”, and technically I shouldn’t have to worry about punishment or dissent because it’s “my opinion”. But just as how there are limitations to correct conduct, there are limitations to correct reasoning, and the current issue is that your tiers, quantitatively as you propose, are off.
But if the everyone´s opinion is the same and you disagree with them I think you are getting it wrong.
Only your opinion consists of MegaZord and BearPlume.
No, I think that they will be terrible. But if you can expect it to see some play, I think it deserves a spot on the Tier list, even at the lowest level.
I don’t expect it to see any play.
Durant tier 1? Do you know Zebstrika ND just made the eels better will and increased its odds to beat durant. Durant should slip down.
As much as I want Durant gone, I just think that it will remain Tier 1. Zebstrika won’t be seeing play in every Zekrom deck, and it doesn’t really matter, people can always play FSL or something to KO it.
if only ReshiBoar wasn’t so frail to judges or N’s it might actually be in the tier 1.5.
If you play it right it is Tier 1.5.
for the last time dude…………….tier 1.5 doesn’t exist. if its not good enough to be tier 1, then it is tier 2 or not on the tier listing at all
I feel you, but I think that we can blame the SP era for skewing most people feel for the tier lists.
In the past there was tier 1: LuxChomp, D-Chomp, VilGar, G-Dos.
Then there was such a huge gap to tier 2 decks (like Arceus, Charizard, Speed Champ, etc.). So, we got used to tier 2 = crap most of the time. That developed a “feel” for how it should be.
Well, now there are about two or three tier 1 decks (CMT, Zeels, etc.). But the next class of decks (tyRam, Thunderdome, Durant, etc.) are REALLY close to being just as good as the tier one decks. So, subconsciously they don’t “feel” like tier 2 decks. They are not crappy. They will not lose 60-70% of the time like the last formats tier 2 decks.
This has lead people to create the tier 1.5 classification. That way we can feel comfortable about putting decks that are clearly lacking in the tier 2 classification, and we still have a place for the really good decks that just are not quite there.
I’m not saying it’s correct. But since tier are fictitious units of measurement, I have no problem with people running the tier system with a 1.5 slot.
Ninetales? Engineer’s Adjustments? Cilan? Collector? I’m a senior, so hate me all you want, but I could get a 3-card hand to 5+ with my build easy.
With ninetales in the deck you have to add even more energy recovery. Good luck having the energy to attack with bro.
saying CoKE is still a good deck is like saying that LuxChomp can be used in modified. theory does not=testing
I’m 99% sure that theory didn’t get it to 4th place in the ECC.
Lol one event electrode made top cut. Definately none in the top four. The real final four were zeel x2, thunderdome, cmt… nice try though
When I wrote this, it was thought that CaKE placed 4th. You can even look at John Kettler’s list and it was 4th. Sorry.
That list was not how they finished the entire tournament. It was their order after the Swiss rounds… a look around the internet (not just copying the info from one place) would have made that relatively clear
I’m 100% sure nothing did.
Can we please stop sending out terrible lists and tier standings, please; it really gives 6P a bad name. Another one for forums methinks.
I am interested to hear what you would change on the Tier list. Tell me.
Reshiboar EX, Chandelure and The Truth are all not 1.5. Since Chandy and the Truths strong point was that they could no be one-shotted, their strength has lessened due to Reshi/Zek EX hitting for 150.
Also, with CMT winning the ECC, I think that has proven itself as a very good deck, given the right build.
And M2X/Gardy better than CaKE after you just said the latter is still a viable deck, give me a break.
The Truth still has Regigigas and Kyurem-EX to work with. I’ll give you Chandy, but I did mean to put it in Tier 2, honestly. And, can you prove Reshiboar is lower than Tier 1.5? If it is played right, it is easily Tier 1.5.
Ummm . . . this is YOUR article and YOU are the one making the claims.
It’s up to YOU to justify putting Reshiboar in tier 1.5 (whatever that is).
Give us some reasons why a deck that has been unsuccessful so far is now suddenly in the same tier as CMT. And don’t use that ‘if played right’ line. It’s meaningless. Lets just assume that everyone can play this relatively simple deck correctly.
I made an article for that, but nobody liked it, probably because people are too stubborn to accept that it has potential with Reshiram-EX.
See this is why I fear you will never improve, either as a writer or a player.
Your Reshiboar article gets a poor reception. Your reason: people are stubborn.
People disagree with you putting Reshiboar in ‘tier 1.5’. Your response: prove me wrong.
Does it occur to you that your Reshiboar article wasn’t liked because it wasn’t good enough? Or that no-one accepts the deck is high tier because . . . well, maybe it isn’t?
Everyone makes mistakes over decks. Everyone writes articles that aren’t that great. If you aren’t prepared to learn from the experience then you’re just going to repeat the cycle over and over again. Though hopefully the FP editors would step in at some point.
Now I have the popcorn. Continue with the entertainment
I will take it to States. I will prove that it is at least Tier 1.5.
You’re in seniors.
Even if you won, it wouldn’t prove that.
Interesting how your response to my genuine attempt to get you to learn from constructive criticism is . . . yet more unsupported arrogance.
(Will that do, airhawk?)
give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. how many reshiboar ex decks were in play in ECC? i dont think there were very many. lets see if there will be any reshiboar ex decks making top cut in the states and provincials and we will take it from there.
See, it can top every single state in Seniors, and not mean a thing. Pokemon tournaments and their win percentages aren’t based on Seniors standings, but are based on Masters standings. Maybe when looking at the tournament as a whole, and seeing which decks appeal to which age group, then you can bring them into account. But when you’re talking matchups, when you’re talking tournaments, when you’re talking statistics like this, the only ones that mean a thing are Masters stats. Anything to the contrary is untrue.
I find this statement to be very prejudiced against Seniors. It is basically stating that any Seniors result doesn’t matter, because Masters are older and therefore smarter, but I beg to differ. I happen to know that any competitive Senior is just as great as any competitive Master.
I’ve been letting others do the talking today, but i’d like to point out you’re taking the whole “seniors results don’t matter” thing in the wrong way.
Let’s say every player is 1-10; with 10 being David Cohen level, and 1 being “just learned how to read and has a theme deck” level.
Because of the nature of the age divisions, seniors (juniors as well) have less cash flow. In a game where the BCIF is 60 bucks on a good day, you cannot expect every single player to have it. Meanwhile, in masters, most of us have jobs or other sources of steady, substantial income. Therefore, we have the top tier decks, even if we have to buy them from scratch.
So let’s say you’re a REALLY good senior.
Seniors age division (8 players):
3 4 2 5 4 6 4 9 (you’re the 9, hypothetically)
Masters age division (8 players):
7 6 8 7 6 8 7 8
That’s why we take the masters results more seriously. While technically seniors had the best PLAYER that day, that senior faced nothing but budget decks and subpar matches. Meanwhile, the masters had rougher matches, with more serious games, and very few easy wins.
Ok, but what about top cut? We won’t be seeing bad decks there, and Seniors have that too. Now, I got 2 Mewtwo-EX, and am just about to buy a 3rd, and my family is by no means rich. Senoirs could go out on a weekend and do odd jobs for other people and easily have as much money to spare as Masters. I have probably spent clse to $400 on cards since the beginning of 2012, so that doesn’t seem to be a problem. I agree that kids could have just started, but that just means that we are producing future Masters that are going to be on the level of David Cohen some day. Just think, a new Master, just out of Seniors. He was taught a whole lot by the Seniors. Now, let’s say his first Masters tournament is Worlds. Fresh out of Seniors, and he wins it. It’s not because the Masters are strong, but the Seniors. And what about the 15 year old Masters? They don’t have a job!
Yes, unfortunately, I am 15 and in masters. I do not have a job nor money to get Mewtwo EXs. But most Masters can and will have jobs, and will buy Mewtwos.
I know I won’t be doing well at tournaments anytime soon, but the vast majority of Masters will have the resources to do so.
But the simple fact is, the brain develops as age increases. You may be a special case, but most Seniors are not in the 12th grade.
Exactly. Not to make it sound negative, but you could be the exception to the rule here, Stephan.
And not just from a monetary standpoint, either. I’m broke but I just borrow the cards lol. Masters are obviously more experienced with the game. They’ve (generally) played for a longer, have experienced more formats and decks and cards, and had more time to develop strategy. Also, being a Master, and, therefore older, you experience a lot of situations in life that, while they don’t necessarily reflect directly to Pokemon, can influence how you look into situations. For example, I’m in a Stats class, so when I look at matchups and stuff for Pokemon, I don’t really take into account the players at all (I assume it’s always the best players for the deck playing the respective deck), I just look at it from a purely statistical basis. Not to say that someone in Seniors/Juniors doesn’t do the same, but I can’t think of many Juniors who’ve taken an A.P. Stats class and use the things they learned/are learning from it and apply it to matchups and the statistically probabilities when involving a certain deck.
Another interesting fact is that rogue-turned-meta are almost exclusively invented in Masters. I cannot think of a deck that fits that bill that’s been invented in Juniors/Seniors that has done exceedingly well across all 3 divisions (I could be wrong, and, if so, someone point one out to me). The Truth, DialgaChomp, Sablelock (Stephen S), and even going back as far as decks like Queendom and RockLock (both this and The Truth were invented by Ross C., and both took 2nd, which must suck for him XD). This demonstrates that Masters have the ability to not only analyze what could be a very complex meta, but take the time to study exactly what counters what most crucially, and deciding which techs/strategies suit the deck better, and which matchups/cards the deck must be prepared to sacrifice a tech for in the face of consistency. Again, not that Juniors/Seniors can’t do that either, but I’d like to see some solid proof of that happening, where a J/S creates a deck that does well in ALL 3 DIVISIONS.
We’re not trying to slam you for being a Senior, most of us were ourselves once. But it’s common fact that when results are looked at, it’s almost exclusively Masters results. Those ECC results sure are only Masters results, and the only ones we care about. Is there even a Junior/Senior section of the tournament for the ECC, and, if so, does anybody care about those results? The answer is I don’t know and No. Which proves my point even more.
Some Seniors are better than some Masters, some aren’t. Would you argue that Juniors are just as good as Masters? The advantage we have is that most of us are able to get jobs and don’t have to ask our parents to drive us to a tournament. Not to mention that yes, it’s considered normal for older people to be smarter. I’d probably throw myself in a lake if I ever thought my 12-year-old self is as smart as I am now. In general, and I stress in general, an older player will be more experienced. At tournaments, there are always more Masters than Juniors and Seniors, meaning it’s harder to win.
But the fact that you’re younger has nothing to do with how seriously you’re taken. Too much of the community will see Seniors as just kids who haven’t become really good yet. And since Senior wins are easier to get than Masters wins, of course they’ll be taken less seriously by most people. I wish I only had 60 or so people in my division at a tournament, as opposed to 300+.
We really need a way to separate the divisions when it comes to how good somebody is, and how the meta works for each. I don’t plan on seeing a top 8 at the Junior tables full of CMT.
I know that a lot of Seniors don’t have enough money, but a lot of times we produce great techs to make up for that. Consider this, I am a 13 year old Senior. I am going to graduate from 12th grade next year, and most likely go to college. It is irrational to think that our knowledge is inferior to an adult’s knowledge.
Don’t underestimate seniors. We usually have just a good and defined format as masters,
just less players. Sometimes there can be fluky wins in minor tourneys but not states.
Stephen, perhaps you’re misunderstanding people’s attempts to make you understand. So I’ll try and appeal to you through your own methods.
Let’s say that Reshiboar EX is really Tier 1.5. Why is that the case? What makes it consistent enough to deal with top contenders? Reshiboar EX is essentially a harder hitting version of Reshiboar.
Reshiboar and TyRam are the two contenders for the “big fire” nominations. I don’t think I need to explain it, but TyRam is clearly superior to Reshiboar, in that it’s more consistent, has better attack options (Typhlosion even has a decent attack), has built in recycling of energy, and requires a lot less set-up. Typhlosion benefited Reshiram’s Outrage attack, which the EX doesn’t have. The EX, however, can put itself in a very crippling situation very quickly. Sure, it’s got 180 HP, but if you flip tails, you put yourself just a PlusPower away from being knocked out by a Zekrom, and you’re still just 3 energy away from a KO from Magnezone (which will be played). If that’s the case, and you can get your main attacker knocked out potentially very easily, why play it (not to mention you fork over two prizes as opposed to the standard one)?
You need to learn that people will disagree with you. When they do, it’s not just cause “they’re wrong and I’m right”, it’s because they obviously see things from a different viewpoint. Sometimes they are wrong, and sometimes you are. We’re trying to help you, because nobody wants to go to States with a deck just to try and prove other people wrong. Because, let’s just say, you go to States with your Reshiboar EX deck, and you end up doing poorly? Will you admit that the deck can’t be tier 1.5 then? I can imagine not, because it’s “drawing bad”, or “inconsistent hands”, or the opponent “got lucky”, or this or that or the other thing. Not all decks or ideas materialize to something great, even if we want them to. We can’t all invent the next DialgaChomp. Not every idea works like that.
I am not going to play Reshiboar at States because I want to prove someone wrong, I am going to play it because I want to. I know that everyone wants to help me by telling me to play the BDIF, but out of every deck I have used in HGSS- on, I have only liked playing Reshiboar. It suits me. I don’t like Magnezone/Eels, Durant, Zekrom/Eels or CMT. I have only felt comfortable playing Reshiboar. I have nothing to lose, I am not goimg to be able to make it into Worlds this year anyway. I appreciate everyone trying to help, but I will be playing Reshiboar until it is rotated or until something else I like comes along.
Well I could try to step in but Adam’s still got final say in that =p But if there are repeated articles with horrible reception and no improvement, there have been several people who have temporarily/permanently had their FPC privileges revoked.
But I have to be totally honest and agree. No matter what you’re doing (especially writing, on a personal level), when you get defensive in the comment section and defend yourself behind weak barriers, you’re never going to get better. It’s saying “I think I’m good here and I don’t care what you think,” which is okay I guess, but when you’re doing something under an actual title (FPC here) and expect people to take you seriously, you’re gonna look like a moron.
NO MORE EX PUNS… PLEASE!
The Pokemon Company disagrees with you. I think the next set is called Dark EXplosion actually.
EXplorers, but yeah :P
Really? I thought it was called Dark EXcretions.
It can’t be EXcretions, it has Raikou D= Everything with Raikou in it is automatically wonderful. (EXcept Legend of Thunder, that was bad.)
Reshiboar with Reshi Ex and Mewtwo is underrepresented and a lot of the lists I ve seen are bad. But you have to face the fact that the deck itself is good and has a weakness that is currently non existent. Kyurem Ex and Kyurem are not played that much.
yup thats the correct line-up of attackers, reshiboar ex needs to have mewtwo and reshiram ex in it
I don’t know what it is with the amount of butthurt here. I for one like seeing these articles, and reading opinions and reasons to where the decks stand. If you don’t like someones opinion, then make your own article/post with your thoughts. Just don’t bash someone because you think you know everything and all the answers.
The real Tier list.
Tier 1
Zekrom EX/Eels
Celebi/Mewtwo/Tornadus
Tier 2
Durant
Reshiboar
Tyram
The truth (because of Kyruem EX and Regigigas EX)
Magne/Eels
Tier 3
everything else.
As much as I want Reshiboar to be teir 1, it isn’t right now. Until we see the results of states we really won’t know how good it is. Now If you’ve been testing like I have, then you’ll already know your answer. Just keep it to yourself until states, because no one would belive you until you prove it to them.
I would put Magne/Eels and Tyram in the 1.5 spot.
Everyone would tweak the list somehow.
Ok, I’m afraid to say this but for the first time in a while, i think this is a bad article. Let me explain why:
We have seen SEVERAL articles concerning the ECC. This contains literally no new information on the results or the meta from the ECC so why include it? This is also, again, written by someone who wasn’t there. I had to put up with enough flack from people disagreeing with my observations (such as many people didn’t play Mewtwo because they didn’t have it, or needed more than they had) and i was trying to provide genuine info gained from being there! We all know the Top Cut posted the Top 32 lists but even THAT was recycled info when they got it. We don’t need to be told the same thing again.
The Tier lists are just plain wrong. At the beginning of your article you set out your stall as this being an article based on analysis of the ECC results. Given this, how can you possibly justify putting Durant (3 top cuts, top 8 at the best) above CMT (4 top cuts, winner)? This contradicts your OWN info you provide at the beginning. Not to mention putting decks in the tier 1.5 that didn’t even cut
What the heck is tier 1.5!?!?!? In football we have League 1, 2 etc. There’s no league 1.5! I know this isn’t you but really, as a community, we need to learn how to count!
Taking out the recycled info and the tier list, there’s very very little here to justify reading it.
Your attitude on some of the constructive comments made here is very disappointing.
Again this isn’t just you, but when looking at the good decks you stop at top 32. Now i can see the logic here but, as should be known by now, there were 28 people who went 6-2 and only 25 of them cut. The other 3 all went 6-2 in this tournament and have viable decks that work in this meta. Did you not think these worth including?
I liked this article for the sole reason that you put Reshiboar at Tier 1.5, because no other article did that – I love Reshiboar.
I love Reshiboar too, but there is no tier 1.5. Right now it has to proove its worth. So it’s tier 2 for now.
6P is punching out really, really short articles lately.
You can’t generalise, it depends on the author.
My recent ECC report and “gossip” article was over 6000 words and contained a full report from the tournament as well as information regarding meta, often used techs and anything else i thought relevant.
In a system where people write their own articles without strict guidelines there will always be variance.
Consider it less criticism and more of an observation.
Oh i agree that you have some of a point. But you were generalising a little. Some of the article are really very short but other people, like airhawk06 are punching out decent length articles regularly. For that we should be thankful!
Same here. All of mine are at least 2000 words. With most being at the 4000 mark. :P
Waiting for states to add my opinion lol after reading all this feedback
You know, after reading all this, I have this to say.
After Triumphant’s release, many believed Magnezone and Yanmega to be utter rubbish, even after rotation. Look what hapened.
Right after the newest rotation, almost everyone was saying that Reshiboar was better than Reshiplosion. Worlds came around, and almost everyone was proven wrong.
When NVI was released, almost everyone thought of durant as a joke. After cities, it’s hailed Tier 1 by many.
So really guys, you can’t blame him for believing that Reshiboar, or Reshiram EX actually since it’s the main attacker, is damn good stuff. It’s the only EX that has close to zero drawbacks (fliptini, lack of water decks) and has a whopping three accelerators to choose from.
I’m not saying that I’m supporting his tier list. I’m just saying that you people take OTHER people too seriously. 6P is a wonderful site, but at least do your own playtesting. Just because the stats don’t show it (and can be debunked be its lack of presence anyway) doesn’t automatically make it a lousy deck.
You’re right, Reshi EX is a great and it makes Reshiboar better, but we’re in no way supporting the OTHER people. We’re going by what WE know for ourselves to be true. WE know that Reshiboar didn’t do too well last format/season, WE also know that even with Reshi EX the deck will still have speed problems. Zekrom will always be faster, Mewtwo can handle reshi EX (if it takes damage from it’s own attack, which can happen), Magnezone can 1 shot everything, etc…
Those are the things that we know to be true because we play most of those decks and we’ve seen those things happen with our own eyes. Just don’t assume we belive everything that people say. Also, we wouldn’t say the stuff that we’re saying if we didn’t playtest it first. (now if they haven’t done this, then they don’t have room to talk)
well said. a lot of respect to you!
Can you please tell me how Gothitelle is Tier 2?
Can you please tell me why ElectrodeBox is NOT Tier 2?
Can you please tell me how Megazord and Donphan/Dragons are Tier 2?
Stock up on research.
Well, you can’t classify Gothitelle any higher, can you?
Look at my Tier list. CaKE is Tier 2 on my list.
Again, you can’t classify Megazord any higher, can you?
Gothitelle is no longer a meta deck, so it needs to stay off the Tier list.
There is a difference between CaKE and ElectrodeBox.
Someone hasn’t heard of Tier 3.
Yeah, I would say that tier 3 can be used. Tier 3 pretty much consists of decks that were decent but do not fit the meta anymore, like Gothitelle and Megazord. Both of them were okay, but huge HP basics drove them out of the tier lists.
Gothniclus is dead. However, Gardevoir Gothitelle has some serious potential, especially with EXP. Share.
I have tried it out. But CMT is such a hard counter that it’s not even funny. And Zekrom EX OHKOs it. CMT and Zekrom/Eels are the two best decks in the format currently.
If you read Mekkah’s Underground article, he/she got matched up against 2 Gothitelle. And, I feel like a noob, but I do not believe I have heard of Electrodebox.
There was an article on ElectrodeBox, it was called The Wierdo.
I don’t read underground articles because I don’t have a subscription. Why else would I never comment on them?
I’d assume those two Gothitelle were also at the lower tables or in earlier rounds, because with decks nowadays capping at 150 and running Mewtwo it just doesn’t seem logical.