“A Bug’s Life” – Genesect and the Metagame

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by DylanBryan, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. DylanBryan

    DylanBryan New Member

    killerpotatoe likes this.
  2. swift1984

    swift1984 New Member

    Hi Dylan,

    I would like to share my list:
    3Genesect EX
    3Virizion EX
    1Lugia EX
    3Drifloon
    2Drifblim PB
    1Drifblim DR
    1Bouffalant

    4Professor Juniper
    4N
    3Skyla
    2Colress
    1Shadow Triad
    3Ultra Ball
    3Colress Machine
    3Pokemon Catcher
    3Float Stone
    1Tool Scrapper
    1Silver Bangle
    1Super Rod
    1G Booster
    2Tropical Beach

    10Grass Energy
    4Plasma Energy

    I chose to run Bouffalant because the math works well for 170HP pokemon and it is a non-EX attacker. Silver Bangle to pair with Drifblim PB(1HKO Deoxys EX in Plasma matchup) or Bouffalant(150 Gold Breaker + previous Megalo Cannon snipe damage)
  3. DylanBryan

    DylanBryan New Member

    Hey, I like the idea of trying to get ahead in the prize exchange with Bouffolant+ Silver bangle. However, there is only 1 silver bangle in your list which may make the combo difficult to pull off and it will only be able to work once. In addition there are only so many 170 hp Pokemon in the metagame you want to be killing.

    Keldeo EX is already weak to grass. Against Plasma they will often attack you with Kyurem/Silver Bangle by turn 3. It is often better to focus on killing the Kyurem or whatever attacker has energy, rather than using Pokemon catcher and knocking out Deoxys (Unless you only have 2 prizes left and can win). This is because Kyurem will keep one-shotting your attackers until you deal with it. Once you take out 2 Kyurem then the deck starts to run out of steam. They may use Thundurus ex at this point, but the Shadow Steal Drifblim already hits for 200+ so Bouffolant is unnecessary.

    Bouffolant is decent in mirror depending on your opponents list. Mr. Mime ruins the 150 with silver bangle plus 20 from megalo cannon on the bench and Lugia trades well with Bouffolant. If they don't play either of those than I could see Bouffolant giving you a slight advantage in mirror. However, you took out Mr. Mime which is also useful in passively preventing the 20 from Megalo Cannon for several turns. Bouffolant is a good attacker in mirror since it trades with Genesect and is a non-ex, but Drifblim from Plasma blast does almost just as much for less energy.

    The biggest arguement I could see for Bouffolant is that it's a slightly better Victini EX counter than Lugia EX, but I have only seen a few decks playing Victini EX.

    Overall, Bouffolant/Silver Bangle isn't a bad option in Genesect, but I feel like it doesn't accomplish anything that most cards can't already do. I think I would play Mr. Mime over Silver Bangle and possibly take out Bouffolant for a useful trainer. Cards like the 10th grass and the 2nd Tropical Beach is more of a metagame and preference thing so if those work better for you in testing Id encourage you to keep them. Best of luck with the deck and I hope that my explanation helped!
    Adam likes this.
  4. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member

    I like the idea of running at least one more Beach, both to improve the odds of opening with it and to have a better chance of one sticking in mid/late-game when you really need to get rid of a Virbank (or provide insurance against N). I was thinking maybe of cutting a Colress for one. What do you think of this play?
  5. DylanBryan

    DylanBryan New Member

    I think running an extra Tropical Beach is definitely viable. I would either take out 1 Skyla or 1 Colress (as you suggested). I think a 2nd Tropical Beach becomes more optimal if lots of players start playing Darkrai/Garbodor. This is the matchup where you would want to counter Virbank and want insurance against like you also mentioned.

    However, if Darkrai/Garbodor is not very popular in the metagame Id advise against it. Tropical Beach is strong turn 1, but playing an extra copy over Colress only gives you 6 outs (4 Skyla+2 Beach) compared to 5 outs (4 Skyla+1 Beach). This only lets you get Beach Turn 1 roughly 7% more of the time. You don't need to counter Virbank in any other matchup, Blastoise plays Beach for you, and I feel like you usually can't afford to use Tropical Beach later in the game if you want to keep up with Plasma or another Genesect deck. In these matchups I would rather draw a Supporter, rather than a Tropical Beach I can't afford to use mid-late game.

    Overall, it's a good choice if you expect to see more Darkrai/Garbodor. Otherwise, 1 copy seems to be sufficient in my testing. It's always good to test out different ideas, that's really the best way to know the deck inside and out and be able to adjust to the metagame easily.
  6. shirokuma

    shirokuma Member

    Hey. how do you generally approach the blastoise matchup? I found it a little hard to keep up with the pace they're able to black ballista
  7. DylanBryan

    DylanBryan New Member

    Hey, the matchup is close to even from my testing. If they get a Turn 2 Blastoise+Black Ballista it's going to be very hard to win, but if they struggle to set up Blastoise it will be an easy game. Then there are the games where your opponent Black Ballista's turn 3-4 which are usually very close. Genesect can usually G-Booster once, but it simply can't keep up with Black Kyurem EX's 200 damage every turn. The best way to beat them is to prevent this from happening.

    Genesect has 7 outs to bringing up a benched Pokemon, thanks to Pokemon Catcher and Red Signal. This means that you can target down Squirtle with Virizion EX early game (since 50 on a Black Kyurem EX is not very useful) and place 2 energy on each Genesect EX. You want to generally leave the Genesect with 2 energy because you will often have to attach a Plasma energy to Genesect to bring up Blastoise and you don't want to lose an energy attachment. By knocking out Blastoise and playing N in response to a Black Ballista, you leave your opponent in a situation where they have Squirtle and Black Kyurem EX with 1 energy. Unless they draw very well, they will often have to pass/tropical beach. This allows you to target down Squirtle if they only have 1 in play, play N again, etc. to try and stop the 200 damage from Black Ballista every turn. A lot of the matchup seems to come down to starts/draws sometimes but I believe that is the best way to play it because you simply can't prize race a Pokemon that does 200 every turn.
    Adam and ottawacollector like this.
  8. shirokuma

    shirokuma Member

    wow. extremely helpful! thanks so much! I will playtest more and try to tackle the matchup with that angle
  9. newtonadam

    newtonadam New Member

    have you tried shaymin + bouffalant in this deck? Yes it is risky, but starting with a shaymin isn't that bad, since it gives you a poor mans emerald slash on turn 1. And bouffalant can force your opponent to play the 7 prize game for shaymin going the sweep. And maybe adding deoxys and plasma badges instead of drifbloom for a soft plasma counter. 1 deoxys makes most of the math beautiful. 60 (virizion with plasma badge) + 110 megalo canon = dead deoxys/thundurus. 110 + 20 snipe damage = dead kyurem. The only problem with playing deoxys is it WILL be a catcher bait. Here is my current list:

    pokemon: 9
    4 virizion ex
    2 Genesect ex
    1 shaymin ex
    1 deoxys ex
    1 bouffalant

    Trainers: 24
    3 colres machine
    1 energy search
    4 pokemon catcher
    1 super rod
    1 switch
    2 tool scrapper
    3 ultra ball
    1 float stone
    1 G-Booster
    4 plasma badge
    2 skyarrow bridge
    1 tropical beach

    supporters: 14
    1 colres
    4 juniper
    3 N
    4 skyla
    2 shadow triad

    energy:
    9 grass
    4 plasma energy

    After testing around 50 games on ptcgo the supporter count is really confusing.
    Its either way too high or way too low. If we can get 2/3 emerald slashes, there shouldn't be any grass energy left in the deck. The deck gets thinned out really fast. Add the colress machines, in most games the deck would be really low on energy by turn 5/6 .

    The 2 tool scrappers is a must, because the league where i am currently playing people play alot of bangles/garbodor/toolbox

    Any suggestions?
  10. Papa_Mash

    Papa_Mash Underground Member

    I was about to read the article and thought I would come here to see if it was getting good or bad comments. It is really nice to see how much time you are giving critiquing the decklists, etc. On my way to the article now...
  11. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Well Dylan this article made me buy Virizion's and Genesect's so props to you!

    Just wanting to get a bit of discussion down on this though: What do people think about Max Potion within this deck? Just wanting to hear some thoughts on this as its been testing fairly well against Darkrai, Plasma and the mirror match but just want to be sure I'm not completely insane with this idea!
  12. DylanBryan

    DylanBryan New Member

    newtonadam: The Supporter count probably feels "low" early game before you thin out your deck. Aftercthe first few turns, it probably feels "high" because you thinned your deck out of energy. It makes sense that you would draw more Supporters/Items.

    If you want to keep a similar concept, some cards that seem less necessary are the 2nd Shadow Triad and the 4th Catcher. I would consider dropping one for a 4th N. I would also swap a plasma badge for a Colress machine as it's the same odds for a T1 Virizion, but Colress machine is more useful overall.

    This version is not as strong vs Plasma is compared to the Drifblim version, but the chance at a T1 emerald slash gives you a small edge in other matchups. The Bouffolant is decent in here as a 7th prize because you don't have other non-EXs, but in the Drifblim version I feel it's outclassed (as I explained in another post).

    I'm not really crazy about the Shaymin though. I agree that it's not a terrible starter due to synthesis, but I can't picture you ever doing 180 with it. You always have to lay Shaymin down for a turn before you use it, which pretty much gives up 2 free prizes. It seems more effective to do 100 twice with another Genesect (Plus the option to G-Booster), then do 180 once conditionally. Your opponent will always Catcher Shaymin unless you get Shaymin/Plasma Badge/Colress Machine/Grass. Another Genesect or Lugia EX might work better instead.

    Best of luck with your deck, it might do well if Plasma turns out to lose popularity.[DOUBLEPOST=1379893309][/DOUBLEPOST]Papa Mash : Thanks for the kind words!

    lucarioAdventure1 :Thanks! I think the biggest problem with Max Potion is that you can't afford to discard energies off of your attacker (usually Genesect) because energy attachments are very important. However, I could see 1 Max Potion being useful to heal a damaged Virizion to buy you 1 more turn late game. I don't think it's that useful vs Plasma because of Kyurems ability to do 180, but the matchup is already positive. However, I could see it giving you a small edge vs mirror and Darkrai if you wanted to run it in addition to Mr. Mime. It all comes down to predicting the metagame, but it definitely is not too crazy if an idea to work!
  13. newtonadam

    newtonadam New Member

    After further testing, the shaymin does end up losing more games that winning them, So I'm taking the shaymin out, and putting in another genesect ex. Colress machine, though useful for acceleration, it lowers the number of "catchers" for genesect ex ability. The second shadow triad is there not for the G-boosters, but for the plasma energy (catcher for a game winning attack, it happens alot for me) and for the high badge count, it is not just for virizion ex, it would sometimes be attached to bouffalant (130 with deoxys ex, that will help against darkrai/black kyurem if i beach on turn 1 instead of emerald slash). I do agree on swapping the 4th catcher for a 4th N tho.

    Thanks for the input!