Tier 1 Blastoise - Blastoise BCR, Keldeo EX, Black Kyurem EX, Techs

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Ziggmiceter, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. KPiplup

    KPiplup An Imposter

    The more I sit and think about it, I think Japan intentionally is trying to kill Blastoise and Emboar off.

    Why? For the sake of the Japanese players at worlds. Being that Beach is banned in Japan, hypothetically, someone coming here would be forced to pony up $400-600 for a playset for 1 tournament. They can't exactly suddenly tell the rest of the World that Beach is illegal, so what's the simplest manner of dealing with the issue? Kill the major decks running Beach. Blastoise and Emboar both can be crippled by Druddigon, in some matchups so much that it swings the game easily. Of course, decks like Trevenant and Flygon still exist and use Beach, but the only reason I can see them printing a clear, hard counter to these decks is to neutralize Beach's impact on Worlds.

    With rotation possibly claiming BCR (and with it, Shell Shield and Skyla), both Emboar (Rayquaza goes) and Blastoise will be dead anyway, resulting in Druddigon's utility likely declining. It seems they figured they could get away with the hard counter for 3 months, and so far, I'd say they've succeeded. I just can't see Blastoise beating a well-prepared list/player.
    jeffrey3421 likes this.
  2. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I agree. It'll take a lot of innovation to get past the threat of both Yveltal EX and Druddigon. If we didn't have Yveltal EX then Keldeo EX stacking would become a viable strategy to deal with Druddigon techs.
  3. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    I agree that Rain Dance has taken a big hit because of Druddigon, but I think your 'Japanese Beach' hypothesis is a bit paranoid conspiracy theory.

    Blastoise has been a top tier deck for about 18 months. I'm more surprised that it has taken so long to release a counter than I am that they have done it at all. It would make as much sense to say they made Pyroar to stop people winning tournaments with cheap tin promo Plasma decks.
  4. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    Plasma's not cheap, Plasma's just fast!

    Yes I know what you meant
  5. 8M8

    8M8 Garchomp deck user

    Hello everyone, I'm new to this forum and a little new to the game too (3 months aprox).
    I play with my friends who taught me how to play a lot so I know most of the standard stuff right now, and I noticed that indeed Druddigon is very bad for Black Ballista Black Kyurem. Trying to find an alternative, this guy seems kind of nice but I'm still new so I wanted to know what do you guys think:


    In the past Black Kyurem totally outclassed this one, but a couple of things have changed and I thought they should be considered:

    1)Giga Frost has now access to Muscle Band, for 170 damage OHKOing most EXs except Darkrai and some rarely used ones

    2)Druddigon exists now, which hurts Black Kyurem a lot. This guy is a water type so it will be a nasty surprise for a Druddigon expecting a BBallista.

    3)Charizard decks will be more common, so the water weakness helps this kyurem

    4)As a bonus, no need for electric energy. Just deluge four water or 2 water and a DC and you are ready to go!

    I'm still a newcomer so if this is a bad or good idea I would love if you could give me some advice, thanks guys
  6. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    Druddigon FLF killed Blastoise. We lost a hugely strong addition in Black Kyurem-EX where we had the option to instantly knock out any Pokemon in the format. In all truthfulness, this is what made Blastoise so good. People running Speed Keldeo would get stomped by one Mewtwo-EX and a DCE, and this remains a problem in this format too.

    Going into the new format, if Blastoise is still playable, I do think Kyurem-EX will be the card that will eventually replace Black Kyurem as the main attacker. A good line to run since Druddigon FLF is becoming so popular would be 2-1 (2 Kyurem-EX, 1 Black Kyurem-EX PLS) over a 0-3 line (0 Kyurem-EX, 3 Black Kyurem-EX). Blastoise should be seeing a decline in play.

    tl;dr Kyurem-EX will most likely replace Black Kyurem-EX as the main attacker in Blastoise if every deck starts carrying a Druddigon tech. The same goes for Pyroar; it blocks everything and 2HKOs 180 HP EXs.
  7. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Blastoise isn't dead yet. We haven't even had a major tournament post-FLF. If Eels could survive a crapton of Landorus EX, Blastoise can live with a few decks teching Druddigon.

    That Kyurem EX is a nice card and I've always liked it. However, unlike BKEX it does not OHKO unless you use Muscle Band for 170 HP EXs and Laser Bank for the 180s. Fitting those cards into Blastoise is hard and hurts consistency, and if it isn't getting the OHKO, then what reason is there to use it? As long as BKEX is legal, people will play it and hope to deal with the single tech Druddigon that a few decks will play.
    HighShroomish likes this.
  8. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member

    We're almost inevitably going to see a pattern something like this:
    1. Every deck that can plays Druddigon to counter Blastoise and Emboar.
    2. Blastoise and Emboar drop in play fearing this threat.
    3. Decks running Druddigon will begin cutting Druddigon for space.
    4. Blastoise and Emboar players will become more prominent.
    5. Repeat.
    It's a cycle we've seen countless times in the game and the moral of the story is that Blastoise and Emboar are too innately strong to die out entirely due to a counter. Their use will cycle some with the metagame, but they'll absolutely remain top-tier.
  9. KPiplup

    KPiplup An Imposter

    Here's the problem:
    There are no tournaments before Nationals. You may see some fluctuation between Nationals and Worlds, but only in those two events. After that, rotation probably makes this irrelevant anyway.
  10. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I'm just excited to watch the top cut live streamed to see what makes it there. I have a feeling there will be at least one Blastoise that will make it there.
  11. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    Just like last year, I think Blastoise will make it to about top 8 and then get beaten. Is that a pessimistic viewpoint to take?
  12. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    I have to say I don't agree. Jeez, Blastoise still has access to Keldeo EX, so it can't be written off. Besides, BBallista still KO's Druddigon, and most decks would only run 1.
  13. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    Why would you Black Ballista a 110 HP 1 prize attacker?
  14. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    Just trying to prove to @CyrusTyler that BKEX isn't dead because of Druddigon
  15. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    I agree with that, the Blastoise player just has to be careful with their BKEX's
    tonenkyra likes this.
  16. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    My list

    3-1-4 Blastoise
    3 Keldeo EX
    3 BKEX
    2-2 Electrode
    3 Sycamore
    3 Shauna
    3 Skyla
    2 Bianca
    1 Lysandre
    1 Pokemon Fan Club
    4 SER
    4 Candy
    2 Megaphone
    2 Super Rod
    1 Computer Search
    3 Lightning
    8 Water
  17. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    I see Keldeo-EX as less of an attacker; consider dropping one to increase Sycamore or Shauna. Think of BKEX as the main hitter with Keldeo-EX as a tech, even though it's not a tech. The same with the Electrode line. Having a 1-1 line should be plenty enough to function.

    I never really got why people run such low energy counts. And I see that we're missing a Professor's Letter or two here as well. Having the option of searching for the Energy that you need is hugely important and I wouldn't ignore it.

    Here are my recommendations:

    -1 Keldeo
    -1 Voltorb
    -1 Electrode
    -2 Bianca
    -1 Super Rod

    +1 Sycamore
    +1 Shauna
    +1 or 2 Water Energy
    +1 or 2 Professor's Letter
    +1 Squirtle BCR
  18. tonenkyra

    tonenkyra Squirtle Squad!

    I gotta agree with cyrus, man that prof's letter can be a life saver. consider adding 2. definitely add a bit more water nrg and if you are running a 4th stoise, add another squirtle (never know when you need to attack pyroar/sigilyph/suicune/etc).
  19. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    Oops, forgot Profs Letter. -1-1 Electrode for 2 Letters, -1 Bianca, +1 Water Energy
  20. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member

    Professor's Letter gives this deck so much explosiveness that you should really be building your deck around the Letter. I'd run three, honestly. It works wonderfully.