Canadian Nationals Top 32

Discussion in 'Organized Play Information & Tournament Reports' started by FlareStarfire, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    The video commentating was horrendous as well as the video quality. The so called sensitive subject was blown way out of proportion and there wasn't any cheating involved. It was just a simple shuffle ruling, congrats.
  2. galladeava

    galladeava Disapproving Clown

    No cheating involved? Are you sure you watched the same video? 3 pile ordering, two four pile shuffles with no change in the order of piling, then no riffle? Give me a break.
    Adam, Monferno and Ziggmiceter like this.
  3. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    The video quality is good. In T8 (I think) you can see Lesage stacking a hand that he want to draw into. There's a Black Kyurem EX, Squirtle, Juniper, Beach and a couple energy he put onto the bottom of his deck which he shuffled into the middle of his deck hoping to be cut into it.
  4. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    How can you possibly say the quality is good? Lol.

    And the situation you're talking about wasn't addressed, and you can't say for sure you're just speculating. The pile shuffle he did wasn't cheating, it's just the fact that he didn't shuffle it enough. The way he pile shuffled would be impossible to replicate the original deck order before he started.
  5. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod.

    Warning: I will not tolerate Ad-hom and any other such antics here. If you want to discuss the cheating or lack thereof at Canadian nats, you may, but keep it civil lest this thread be locked.
  6. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    http://www.twitch.tv/onthebubble/b/420733475
    Skip to around 38:00 and watch Lesage shuffle the whole time.
  7. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    So, he six pile shuffles.... riffle shuffles... then picks up his deck, rearranges the cards, cuts the deck a few times, and then presents it for cutting.

    Just.... wow. Why not just set the order, cut it once and present it? "Shuffling", indeed.
    Adam and Ziggmiceter like this.
  8. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    From my understanding of what the judges said in the video it wasn't his shuffle they were questioning it was the other guys. He only did 2 piles shuffles, and it wasn't enough.
  9. cortico

    cortico New Member


    You might have missed the part where he described to the judge what he did (it was raw audio from the footage, so you don't need good quality visuals for that!). He separated Pokemon, Trainers, and Energy into the 3 piles, and did a 4 pile shuffle twice. That's a double nickel with 4 piles instead of 5. The point is not to replicate original deck order, but manipulate the "randomization" process such that he can get relatively even distribution of the each type of card in his deck.[DOUBLEPOST=1372366136][/DOUBLEPOST]

    I think we can all agree that the judges were wrong. Not necessarily intentionally, but they clearly didn't see what the players actually did, or they're unaware of the methods they used.

    Not sure why you think pile shuffling is sufficient. It never is. You can easily manipulate deck order given that you use a predetermined number of piles. You have to follow it up with a number of additional overhand, riffle, or other shuffles.
  10. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    Oh no no, I definitely don't think his pile shuffling was sufficient enough, he should have at least riffle shuffled a few times after. I was just saying the way he piled would be nearly impossible to replicate any predetermined order. He might have tried to increase his odds, but we can't honestly call him out for cheating, it wasn't blatant enough in my opinion.
  11. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    WuBMaYNE

    I wish I could still do as you do and assume players are honest. Unfortunately both videos present comprehensive evidence to the contrary, and it would be naive to think otherwise.

    The judging was . . . inadequate and naive. They seemed very keen to trust/not upset the players.

    We can't turn a blind eye to this and just go on thinking we play a game where everything is sunshine and rainbows because if we do, these cheats will turn the decent people right off the game and all that will be left is a bunch of thieves and stackers (see YGO for details).

    You do realise that trying to increase the odds IS cheating, right?

    His shuffling isn't about getting specific cards in hand, it's about maximizing the chances of an even distribution (2 Pokemon, 3-4 Trainers, 1-2 Energy). If you attempt to manipulate your deck to make that happen, you are a cheat.
    camoclone, Monferno and Ziggmiceter like this.
  12. superw8

    superw8 Did you?

    Is it just me, or did the video for top 4 on OnTheBubble disappear?
  13. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    They're fixing the quality and it will be back up later.
  14. superw8

    superw8 Did you?

    ok, thanks.
  15. pikajew1213

    pikajew1213 Jewrachi and Pikajew :3

    ^It's back up..17
  16. TURDCANNON

    TURDCANNON As foretold by Nostradamus

    Cool, thanks. Rot.