Combustion Blast Charizard EX (12/106)/Pyroar Deck (Flashfire)

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by thflame, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    Take out SABs, there's really no need for them, especially since you have that Keldeo EX/Float Stone. Add in another Charizard EX and another Blacksmith instead of the SABs. Take out the Evosoda for another N, and probably the Pal Pad for yet another N. N is one of the best cards in the format, you should run 3-4 copies of it in every single deck. (Maybe not Speed Lugia, but that rarely sees play)
  2. thflame

    thflame Member

    Jirachi seems a little risky with Lysandre in the format, but I can definitely see the synergy.

    If you are looking for extra space, drop 2 [R]. I've been playing with 8 and I almost never have energy issues.

    Max out Blacksmith. Energy acceleration is crucial to this deck. (Less so since you primary Pyroar, but still...)

    I wouldn't play Sky Arrow Bridge. It doesn't give anything free retreat, and I don't know how many times I have discarded 2 [R] by retreating something , then Blacksmith-ed it the new active. If you want a counter stadium, play something like Pokemon Center or Battle City (if you have it).

    Since you play 4 Ultra Ball, I wouldn't play Evosoda, unless Pyroar/Archeops is a thing where you are.

    If you are having problems with late game Ns, try Shana. I run a 2-2 split of N and Shana.

    I like Startling Megaphone better than Tool Scrapper, that just my opinion.

    My last bit of advice is more item based draw power. Most decks want to play a draw supporter every turn, this deck does not have that luxury. That being said, you may want to drop Skylas from your list. If you aren't playing a Blacksmith, you want to be drawing cards.

    Recommended changes:

    3 Litleo
    3 Pyroar
    2 Charizard EX
    1 Jirachi EX
    1 Druddigon
    1 Keldeo EX

    10 Fire (-2)
    4 DCE

    4 juniper
    4 Fiery Torch
    4 Ultraballs
    3 Muscle Band
    3 skyla (-3)
    3 BSmith (+1)
    2 Float Stone
    2 N (+2 Shana)
    2 Sky Arrow Gym Bridge (-2)
    2 Tool Scrapper
    1 S.Rod
    1 EvoSoda (- 1)
    1 Prof. Letter
    1 Dowsing Machine
    1 Lysandre
    1 PalPad

    +5 Free space (recommend Roller Skates/Bicycle)
  3. Tax_collecter

    Tax_collecter Active Member

    Reasoning on the lack of Flame Torch? My list looks just like yours except -3 N -1 Lysandre, +4 Flame Torch.
  4. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    Two reasons I found I didn't like flame torch- space is tight in the deck to begin with, and the card literally does not do anything except for drop a fire energy into the discard and replace itself with a different card. The card is dead if you have no energy (somewhat common) which makes Bike even harder to use, or makes you miss an energy attachment if you drop your one fire to it and then don't get a letter / another energy on the redraw. Also, I think the deck has enough double discard outlets (comp search, 4 ultra) such that with a high-ish letter count having a 2 card "combo" (especially with skates) is actually not that hard to come by, and once you have those 2 fire in discard, truthfully that's all you need. That allows you 4 spots to play with, and I think Lysandre is a -huge- play for this deck that otherwise has not so many outs vs an active garbodor; N is because if you're not going off turn 1, you're really wanting a fresh 6 card hand to try and finish going off on turn 2. Can't rely on your opponent N'ing you anymore with Shauna around.

    So the TL,DR:
    1)"Live" topdeck cards over "Dead" ones
    2)Decks existing discard engine appears to be quite sufficient

    Final comment: If Firey Torch drew 3 instead of 2 (+1 Card advantage) it'd instantly be a 3-4 of, and probably take the place of Skates. Sadly it just cycles itself.
  5. thflame

    thflame Member

    I have to disagree with this. I feel as though you are missing the point of Fiery Torch.

    Normally, this card would just trade two cards in you hand for 2 random cards in your deck, which thins out your deck, which isn't a bad thing. A thinner deck is generally considered better (assuming you aren't in danger of decking out).

    In this deck, you WANT the [R] in the discard. So the card, for all intents and purposes, actually says this:

    "Put a [R] energy from your hand into the discard pile for your Blacksmith later. As an added bonus, draw 2 cards."

    For a single Item card, you are drawing 2 cards and putting a card where you want it.

    Truly cycling cards is something like Caitlin.

    Put as many cards from your hand as you like on the bottom of your deck in any order. Then, draw a card for each card you put on the bottom of your deck.
    Tsunami likes this.
  6. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    Caitlin is worse than cycling since you don't draw a card for the Caitlin; and you did not address the point that without a fire energy in hand, Fiery Torch doesn't do anything at all. I very much understand that you want fire in the discard, but other cards still do the same thing and grant a beneficial effect -on top- of the action. The last thing you want is an N to 1, then see a Fiery Torch as your lone card. Hope you draw one of your 8 fire energy next right?
  7. Ein

    Ein The Mega Man Master

    I haven't been too wowed by Fiery Torch either. It really hurts when you want more cards, but only have 1 energy in hand. Not worth it to discard it just to hope you draw another, basically netting a single card. Juniper/Ultra Ball/KOs/Retreat get fire into the discard in a more effective manor. I would much rather have Roller Skates/Bikes.
  8. thflame

    thflame Member

    Any card with a requirement for being played has the same downside.

    With 5 or more cards in hand Bicycle doesn't do anything at all.

    On a tails, Roller Skates doesn't do anything at all.

    Without 2 other cards to discard, Ultra Ball and Comp. Search don't do anything either.

    Also, drawing 2 cards was a beneficial effect last time I checked.

    As far as being N-ed to 1, that's generally bad unless you top deck a supporter. In fact, being N-ed to 1 and grabbing an Ultra Ball or a Comp Search is arguably worse. This means you have no hope of that card being playable next turn without another supporter or draw card. At least you have the chance of drawing a [R] if N-ed to a single Torch.

    I'm not saying replace all of your Bikes and Skates with Torches (I'm not saying you should do anything). I mainly want to address the misconception that Fiery Torch just "cycles cards".

    However if you would like my opinion on Skates/Bike/Torches, I'd recommend running as much of them as feasible in this deck.
  9. kairyuRF24

    kairyuRF24 New Member

    Well, this is Charizard EX/Pyroar Deck without Pyroar.
    Pyroar is good, but he can't protect your Charizard from Lysandre.
    Without Pyroar, just Attack with Charizard, Catch your opponent pokemon with Ninetales.
    The main idea is focus on knock out opponent's Pokemon-EX 3 times.

    Pokemon (13)
    3 Charizard EX (C.Blast ver.)
    1 MegaCharizard EX (Y ver.)
    2-2 Ninetales DRX
    1 Reshiram
    2 JirachiEX
    2 Keldeo EX

    Trainers (36)
    4 Juniper
    3 N
    4 Blacksmith
    2 Lysandre

    1 AS Computer Search
    4 Ultra Ball
    2 Fiery Torch
    1 Professor's Letter
    1 Sacred Ash
    2 Startling Megaphone
    3 Float Stone
    4 Muscle Band
    2 HTL

    2 Tropical Beach

    Energy (11)
    7 Fire
    4 DCE

    Like the Pyroar ver, Power up your Charizard EX ASAP.
    When you have those card, you can full charge a Charizard in one turn.
    1.)Ultra Ball+2[R]+DCE+BlackSmith

    Pokemon Choices:
    3 Charizard EX+2 KeldeoEX

    1 M-CharizardEX
    M-Charizard is for the Pyroar mirror match.

    1 Reshiram
    OHKO Sigilyph/Suicune.Also the 7th prize.

    2 JirachiEX
    Searching for any Support,mainly Juniper and BlackSmith。
    You want your Charizard alive, so better your opponent hit this card than hit your Charizard.

    Suppoter Choice:
    4 Juniper
    3 N
    Standard. Maybe cut a Jirachi for the 4th N?

    2 Lysandre
    Though Garbodor Shut down your Ninetales, you can always Lysander your opponent's EX under Garbotoxin.

    Item Choice:
    4 Muscle Band
    You don't want hit 150
    Maxout muscle Band, so you get highest accuracy to hit 170.

    2 HTL

    2 Tropical Beach
    Yes you need beach. T1 beach is always a good idea.

    What do you guys think about this list XD
  10. thflame

    thflame Member

    The main problem you have with Pyroar (if I understand correctly), is that it "doesn't protect your Charizard from Lysandre".

    I fail to see how Ninetails does.

    Ninetails is pretty much useless in this deck after it evolves. It can't do much, and it takes up bench space. Instead of a 2-2 line of Ninetails, you could run 4 Catcher or 2 more Lysandre and 2 Catcher. Obviously both have their downsides, but a Ninetails without a Vulpix (or vice-versa) is just a dead card.

    Now as for your other Pokemon choices:

    M Charizard as a Pyroar counter:

    Quite honestly, Pyroar is a better Pyroar counter than M Charizard. Pyroar is cheaper, doesn't hurt itself, doesn't give up 2 prizes, and doesn't end your turn when you put it into play. The only real advantage M-Charizard has is that it doesn't need any help to OHKO anything.

    Reshiram is a decent choice, but Pyroar also OHKOs Safeguard Pokemon (Needs a Band for Suicune). To top it off, Pyroar can't be hurt by Safeguard Pokemon.

    Finally, the main advantage that Pyroar has over your other choices is that it can't damaged by 90% of the meta.

    Now, since I feel as though I've been a little harsh, I will say this: I think you have a decent idea going on here, it just needs more.

    Imagine running a Catcher fest M Charizard deck with Protect Cubes instead of Muscle Bands. You would basically be OHKOing whatever you wanted every turn.

    You wouldn't need Muscle Band or HTL.
    Keldeo could be dropped down to 1 with a Float Stone or 2 just for a switching effect.
    You don't really care about Garbodor anymore since you are just going to take OHKOs every turn, so you could drop a Megaphone.
    2 Lysandre with Jirachi support probably gets you your 3, 2-prize KOs. Maybe add a third Lysandre or a Pal Pad.

    Space would be tight, (i'm not even sure it is possible) but you would steam roll people as soon as you got set up.
  11. kairyuRF24

    kairyuRF24 New Member

    Ninetails doesn't protect, cause he is a SWORD, right?
    I'm not saying Pyroar is not good. Pyroar is a SHIELD. But once you opponent break the shield(with Lysandre etc), you will lose a CharizardXD

    Pyroar's attack is pain. Also he rob your Charizard's energy and muscle band, if you let him attack.
    No dought that Pyroar can slow down most decks. But if you just need 1 turn or two to power up your Charizard, Keldeo do the same job.
    Nothing can OHKO your Keldeo EASILY in T1 or T2(Maybe lugia lol)

    Catcher is not believeable.
    With 4 BlackSmith, run 4 Lysandre seems little crazy.
    Ninetails is useless before you setup, but I don't think Pyroar isn't a dead card without litleo.
    Once you get C.Blast stream, you need Ninetails to pick up which to kill, and don't need pyroar anymore.
    And that's not all, if you can catch right target, you are prevent Charizard from take heavily damage(or even a revenge KO),so that you can C.Blastone more times.
    The advantage side between them is just like early game N and later game Colress.
    If you're focus on C.Blast, Ninetails would be an offensive Choice.
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
    themiraclemeat likes this.
  12. thflame

    thflame Member

    I'm not saying you should use Pyroar as a replacement for Ninetails. They fill completely different jobs.

    What I am saying is that Pyroar fills the roles of Reshiram AND M Charizard EX in this deck much easier with added benefits and if things go poorly, which they will occasionally, you can hide behind it and its attack isn't bad.

    As far as Ninetails, there are many other "Gust Effects" in format that are easier to use and more consistent.

    Genesect EX + Plasma Energy - Requires 2 cards and can be done in one turn. It is reusable as long as you have Plasma Energy. You miss out on your energy attachment for the turn.

    Pokemon Catcher - Only requires one card and can be done in one turn. It requires a coin flip.

    Lysandre - Only requires one card and can be done in one turn. It uses up your supporter for the turn.

    Escape Rope - Only requires one card and can be done in one turn. Depending on what your opponent has, it may not be useful. It doubles as a switching card.

    Ninetails - Requires 2 cards and two turns to execute. You have to bench a Vulpix for your first turn and hope your opponent doesn't force it active and knock it out or N you out of your Ninetails.
  13. ThePokemonBeast

    ThePokemonBeast A Beast At Everything Pokemon

    Has anyone considered Stoke Charizard? My brother has a pretty good list.
  14. ThePirateKingAtomsk

    ThePirateKingAtomsk Red Haze Stalker

    No. You can't ohko without Mega Evo with Stoke.
  15. thflame

    thflame Member

    Feel free to post it, but the biggest problem with Stoke Charizard is that it walks into an Evil Ball for 120+ damage after a successful Stoke.
  16. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    Yea, you basically kill yourself when you Stoke. That list is officially scrapped.[DOUBLEPOST=1402079726][/DOUBLEPOST]
    Ninetales is pointless. No purpose in the deck.
  17. thflame

    thflame Member

    Apparently a Charizard/Pyroar Deck won Singapore Nats. No decklist though.
  18. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    Played this list today and won myself an LC. Take it or leave it. Just throwing it out there.

    Pokemon (12)
    3 Charizard EX
    1 M Charizard EX (Fire)
    3-3 Pyroar
    1 Keldeo EX
    1 Jirachi EX

    Support/Draw (19)
    3 Juniper
    4 N
    3 Blacksmith
    2 Skyla
    2 Lysandre
    3 Bicycle
    2 Fiery Torch

    Item (16)
    4 Ultra Ball
    3 Muscle Band
    2 Float Stone
    2 Startling Megaphone
    1 Switch
    1 Pal Pad
    1 Super Rod
    1 Professor's Letter
    1 Scramble Switch

    Energy (13)
    9 Fire
    4 DCE
  19. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    How often was Mega Charizard used and was it effective at all?
  20. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    I used it in my first game against Toxicroak/Dragalge, simply because I happened to have it really early with some nice acceleration and I knew it'd overwhelm him. Worked just fine. My other games were against VirGen (Pyroar did all the work), Greninja/Miltank (no use for him there), and a T1 donk win, so I didn't really need him otherwise.

    I've pulled him out in a few other games here and there. He's usually worth his weight in prizes and can take 2-4 before dying. The one copy feels worthwhile.
    Gelato likes this.