Counters and Counter Counters – Playing and Beating Klinklang and Gothitelle/Accelgor

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by badganondorf, May 28, 2013.

  1. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    Crawdaunt

    I agree with you as well. Also good news I just won both Roads sat, sun with goth accelgor 2 beach 1 frozen city and 1/0/1 dusknoir tech. The deck works very well.
  2. kgenthe

    kgenthe Member

    I won (5-0) a Battle Roads Saturday with Goth/Gor/Noir with Musharna, and finished 3-2 (7th) Sunday. My only 2 losses were both against Plasma decks. Frozen City is a cool tech, but I don't feel it helps arguable the toughest match-up (Plasma).

    I thought Darkrai would be a tough matchup, but I actually now feel it's favorable. They can't one-shot your Goths, so you can actually squeeze in 1-2 turns through the game of Beaching for a fresh hand, instead of using a Deck-and-Cover.

    My first loss was due to an incredably slow start (no supporters for the first 6 turns), when I finally started setting up, he was able to catcher/kill my only Shelmet in play setting me back a turn. On another turn where the lock was broken, my Accelgor didn't wake up from his Laser... and yet I still would have won the game. Except for on his second-to-last turn he N'ed me to 2 (skyla/candy). This removed my Candy/Dusknoir/Double Colorless which would have sealed the game for me.

    My second loss was a donk (Deoxys on lone Gothita). We played a second game for fun, he was only able to attack 3 times, and that was Lugia knocking out Gothitelle for 2-prizes, 3 times. This seems like a pretty fluke scenerio though. I had some bad junipers early on which left me without my final rare candy to get up Dusknoir and complete the lock.

    2 cards I wouldn't mind trying to squeeze in: Duskclops and Max Potion.
  3. coryc1

    coryc1 New Member

    I second the 1 max potion tech. It buys you 1 turn more with Goth as you set the other stuff up. I tested with it and really like it.

    -Cory
  4. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    "Jay: I knew it was an overstatement to say that it's the worst list on the Internet, but in the end that was just my way of saying I wasn't really happy with the list you provided in your UG article and I sincerely felt like you hadn't tested Plasma enough to make a complete article on it."

    Do you begin to see the difference in these two statements? I feel had you approached your case this way it would have come across less combative and arrogant. There are many ways to get your point across being more tactful just takes practice.

    "The lack of Landorus and 1 Kyurem in the list were some affecting factors."

    The 1 Kyurem I already contend, but your list didn't even play Landorus so I don't get how you can call me out on mine. Landorus at times can also be hard to set up and match handsizes. Is it good yes...perfect counter to Darkrai or Thundurus EX, well....

    "Also, your deck didn't run Keldeo EX, so it pretty much folds to Gothitelle/Accelgor (which isn’t a tier2 deck as Klinklang, which I’m not sure is a tier2 deck either!) as well and since my article was especially concentrated on Klinklang and Gothitelle (which your list has very bad match-ups against), I think it was a valid point I made."

    Please explain to me how Keldeo EX autowins you Goth when your never going to keep a Float Stone under it? I fully admit its a good counter, but without free retreat you need 4 energy to 1HKO a Goth before they can Catcher/KO it. Once again a solid tech, but don't act like this hugely improves your Goth match up.

    "And as I said in the article, I don’t' really like criticizing other Underground articles and I think this was first time I did so, but I was sincerely disappointed about the quality of the Plasma-article and wanted to point that out. One of the reasons may have been the reason that I know you are very high-caliber player and so are your articles. The article was just a huge let down compared to your usual level."

    Once again spend some time working on your tactfulness...if you disagree with me fine, but forum critizim in a more constructive manor.

    "The heavy Kyurem list is there due to the topic of the article. And it’s only considered as a counter deck against the decks that was discussed in the article. Nothing less, nothing more. And when it comes to my “real” list… Well, I think everyone knows why I don’t post my real list. If some of you don’t, I suggest you to think of the answer to the question carefully. The answer is quite obvious."

    No please enlighten me why I post every one of my lists, including winning lists from major events like States, Regionals, and Nationals. Many of which I would prefer not to post, (Eels from States last year, Blastoise/Keldeo from Cities this year, and Darkrai/Mewtwo from Nationals all come to mind) but do so because I want to be fair to the readers who pay $14.99 a month. So please explain to me why I have to post my real lists and you feel like you don't have to post yours while critizing others...I would really like an answer to this one.

    "And one more thing. When I gave the article to Adam, I said to him that he may delete the “Jay-bashing” part and explained him why I wrote it. In the message to Adam I also said that I’m sure that you will do very well in the Nationals and Worlds and I don’t doubt that you’ll bring the big guns to there and will test for them more than to other tournaments of the year combined. But that has nothing to do with your article quality."

    Once again you have zero tactfulness and your statement came across and arrogant and insulting. If you have phrased things slightly differently I don't even think we would have an issue. Or had more lively discussion.

    "I'm sure you will be doing once again extremely well in the Nationals and/or Worlds, but in the end it has nothing to do with your article quality. A player can win Worlds and still write a mediocre or even a bad article or the other way around. I criticized the content of your article, not you as a player or as a person."

    You still made 3 or 4 points you disagreed with me on...1 Kyurem, no Landorus, and no Keldeo (which I discussed in the thread) I don't see how you disagree with 3 points makes my article horrible? Anyways thankfully the readers have voted it 18 a head of yours right now so whatever.

    "And when it comes to article quality, action doesn’t really have anything to do with it – only the content does. I think some of us still remember what happened in Underground after the pre-U.S. Nationals rotation in 2011."

    Which is more likely to happen when writers refuse to give out there real lists, which is made worse by only hinting at them. By saying I have a real list, but I don't want to share it your just screaming "I know a secret, but I'm not telling."




    On topic: I think it is kind a way funny how 3 sentences in a long article cause a lot more discussion than the rest 99% of the article. I guess I should have had it coming. [/quote]
    Yuna, ottawacollector and Milky like this.
  5. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    kgenthe

    Sounds like games are running similar around the country. Did you enjoy the deck play? The only reason why I played the tech stadium was on behalf of the 3rd beach I earned in 2011 was traded off to get my full plasma basics...;(.... (I was a little sad after I found out that promo Tins are being released with thundorus, deoxys, lugia).... Bye bye beach.

    I still have the two from worlds and the other languages I can't do much with....lol

    Dusknoir is the ultimate MVP in the deck, (1) scraper make's those double keldeo useless....;)

    When playing I ran into a goth deck running deoxys and plasma badge to give the added damage to koing blastoise. On the other hand the player would break the lock and be forced to getting a goth ko'd.
    All bs aside I feel goth lock will be a strong contender coming nats....

    Lets hope a blk kyurem, leafeon, beartic doesn't come out with 210 hp swinging for 400....lol
  6. koji

    koji last name ever, first name greatest

    awww come on you leaked the idea......jk!!
  7. kgenthe

    kgenthe Member

    I'd say it's one of the funnest decks I've played in a long long time (probably since MagneBoar a year ago, with Pichu, 4 Twins, and RDL). It was also the first time I've consistantly had an audience surrounding me nearly every game, especially since most of my games went to time, haha. This must be what people like Jay and Esa feel like when they are at tournaments ;)
  8. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    koji

    My bad....lol I just Heard of it from a friend and decided, it might hit pretty hard....;)
  9. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Hit pretty hard? Psh! You guys are way off track. Vileplume BCR is where it's at!
  10. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    Milky

    Your concerns as an underground member should not be taken lightly. If you have comments or concerns I'm Sure Adam will be more than concerned to help you. ( though I'm not speaking on behalf of Adam Capriola or sixprizes )

    The few Writers I have always been able to count on For quality information are:
    Jay Hornung
    Frank Diaz
    John Kettler
    Mike Diaz
    Josh Wittenkeller
    Colin moll
    Dylan lefavor

    Old school days:
    Chris fulop
    Pablo meza
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  11. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    One last comment I would like to make, I won't lie I'm kind of ticked at Esa right now for reasons I've gone into detail about. Ironically though its these extremely heated arguements that we occasionally get into on the forums that lead to some of the best and most insightful discussions. Sometimes a pair of boxing clothes solves more problems than you would think ;)
  12. koji

    koji last name ever, first name greatest

    hey DCalpha its all good im just kidding around it does sounded kinda good though...
  13. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    JayHornung
    Yeah you have all the right to feel that way, it's a human emotion. It's surprising how much frustration you can get out while boxing. Personally it hit the bag, and put headphones on and hit free weights hard....;)

    koji
    Yeah beartic is a very interesting deck. This is usually my favorite time of year for Pkmn TCG. Nationals/professor cup/unlimited tournaments are around the corner. It's always a pleasure seeing the concepts and ideas that arise.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  14. shirokuma

    shirokuma Member

    so why is plasma landorus so good anws? seems pretty hard to set up and too easily koed to me lol
  15. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Think about it this way. 20+30=50. 50x2=100. With the first attack, without matching hand size, it still 2HKO's Darkrai and thundurus, and ohko's eels and absol.

    If you match hand size, that turns into a OHKO with laserbank. Certainly worth consideration.
    Adam likes this.
  16. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    The landorus + deoxys dual Handedly won me the 2 roads the weekend befor last.

    The pros:
    Great 1st attack for typing weakness
    Useable with colress machine
    Deoxys ability gives extra damage
    Laser virbank combo
    Opponent take only 1 prize
    Resistance to lightning

    Cons
    Water weakness
    110 hp
    2nd attack is difficult to power with relatively low hp
    2 retreat
    Hard to obtain.

    I have eight listed on eBay now 4 sold and have 4 left.
  17. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

    Reply coming on Wednesday. Oh and for those who didn't know, I played Gothitelle/Accelgor in my Nationals this weekend and only made it to top4.
  18. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Were you the guy whose selling them at $30
  19. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    They are going for $30??? They retail over here for £8.95 (about $14) with 3 PLF boosters and a coin.

    Is there a supply problem in the US?
  20. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    A serious supply issue...try and find them on ebay