Tier 2 Darkrai EX, Sableye DEX

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Serperior, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. pkmn

    pkmn that's when I won nats

    I agree with Reshiphlosion. You don't really get to use Sableye because your focus with Speed Rai is early pressure and not setup. The deck was already built to set up with no Junk Hunt. Sableye is just there to get back important items later in the game. Yveltal may not be as popular as Mewtwo but it definitely is better. I would much rather use Yveltal EX or Yveltal for early game pressure instead of Darkrai.
    Reshiphlosion likes this.
  2. PellOfTheTundra

    PellOfTheTundra Do you even LT-87

    Actually, I won't. I've had no use for Sableye in testing. Yveltal XY has been the better choice every time, because as much as you'd hate to admit, 30/50 damage is 30/50 damage less that Yveltal-EX has to do.
    pkmn likes this.
  3. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

    Yeah, that's damage Yveltal EX has to do. Not damage Darkrai has to do.
    Yeah no. You will be using Sableye to reuse Dark Patches for the first 1-2 turns. You won't be Night Spearing on the first most of the time, and even if you do, I'm not about to let only one Darkrai be powered up at any given time. Again, without Sableye, Darkrai is not what it is today.
  4. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Darkrai never was much without Sableye, the two go together and cannot thrive without each other. However if done right you do not need to junk hunt after the first turn with this deck, unless you're getting resources back in the mid-late game. This deck was always meant to put on early pressure, if you want to spend 2-3 turns using Junk Hunt and setting up I would recommend using Garbodor or Hydreigon. Otherwise an early evil ball or night spear and overwhelming consistency is what this deck should be all about.

    Of course, that's just my opinion based off of my experience with this deck... :/
  5. pkmn

    pkmn that's when I won nats

    lol if you junk hunt for 1-2 turns just for dark patches then ur probably not using speed darkrai at all. That's why it's called SPEED Darkrai cuz it starts attacking T2 onwards with night spear or evil ball. if that's your playstyle then you better go garbodor. I am not underestimating the power of sableye.
  6. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

    Well, I mean, isn't that kinda what Sableye is supposed to do? If your not going to be Junk Hunting, even though Darkrai decks have for as long as they've existed, SpeedRai or not, then why use it at all? Oh, that's right, because Yvel- wait, I've already said this.
    Especially in a slower format than any we've had for as long as I've been playing, not only can you afford to Junk Hunt turn 1-2, but I don't see why you wouldn't. Here, let me give another reason Darkrai is Darkrai- because it can use Sableye early to get 2/3 attachments per turn. Every top tier deck in the format needs multiple attachments per turn early. Yveltal XY provides you with two and max 50 damage. Dark Patch adds 1-2, so you have 3-4 attachments(one needed for Yveltal) per turn and it stops at turn 2. Before someone says something about Plasma- remember they're taking two prizes off you non-EXs and three from you're EXs and using OHKOs to do so. You on the other hand, are 2HKOing and taking one prize from non-EXs and 2 from EXs. Using Sableye- one attachment to Sableye, one Dark Patch, then next turn two and attach to Darkrai and you have a fully loaded Darkrai along with a Sableye and the ability to make another quick Darkrai(which I would do right then). Sableye allows for more attachments per turn once turn 3 hits, which means you can have two Darkrai set up and a Sableye going into turn 4, or two Darkrai and a Sableye in the discard. And yes, I'm using the same scenario for both. In SpeedRai*, if you want to get out paced by your opponent once you reach t4, by all means do.




    *thinking farther into this, it should probably be classified as more of a playstyle.
  7. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Hmm I think we're at a bit of a misunderstanding. I was only referring to Yveltal EX applying early pressure on turn 2, I haven't done any testing with Yveltal XY and probably wouldn't replace sableye with it. Although I might use it instead of absol as a non-EX attacker and a substitute setup mon. Also try eating a T2 attack for 80-100 damage, it's not easy to take no matter what deck your playing and can often justify not spending that turn using Junk Hunt.
  8. pkmn

    pkmn that's when I won nats

    I still use Sableye due to its ability to reuse Lasers, Catchers etc. I have never found myself using it T2 because by then I would have already set up either a Darkrai or an Yveltal. Don't tell me you're gonna let Virgen use Emerald Slash while you're just going to Junk Hunt all day for Dark Patches. I'd much rather wreck them with Yveltal. Look dude, if you're gonna use Sableye for T1-T3 then u might as well use garbodor
  9. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

  10. PellOfTheTundra

    PellOfTheTundra Do you even LT-87

    Sorry, gotta break it to you, NXD-XY is faster than the Worlds format. A LOT faster.
    Alastair likes this.
  11. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    Well Worlds format we did have TDK that could Catcher KO an EX T2 it just Frost Speared turn 1 for 2 Prizes. Still I think the NXD-XY format is pretty fast, but not faster.
    pkmn likes this.
  12. PellOfTheTundra

    PellOfTheTundra Do you even LT-87

    D/Y builds focusing on taking a prize T3 at the latest, and a certain other deck is built to take 3 on T1...
    Also doesn't help that we now have Letter in format.
  13. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

    Why is that? Muscle Band? When the only deck that will use it is Plasma? And Professor's Letter suddenly does what? Allow you to not miss an attachment?
  14. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    The only decks that won't be using Muscle Band are those that can OHKO without it.

    But yeah, the format will be faster than Worlds (if you don't count the artificial slowness introduced by the new first turn rules). Several reasons . . .
    • Muscle Band
    • Yveltal
    • 50 min B-o-3 not favouring attrition decks
    PellOfTheTundra likes this.
  15. PellOfTheTundra

    PellOfTheTundra Do you even LT-87

    Muscle Band will be used by more than just Plasma, tyvm. As for Letter, you are able to more easily get energy into your hand for decks like Rayboar and Blastoise, meaning their consistency jumps up as there is an even higher chance that they will have access to energy. Also, you can use it in Darkrai so that you have Ultra Ball fodder AND energy to accelerate with Yveltal. Less missed attachments means *gasp* less turns for drawpass!

    Correct. People are looking past the tournament time changes and are looking only at the "slowing" of the game by a turn. Yveltal is super easy to power up, hits hard, and takes KOs like it is his job. Muscle band turns previous 2HKOs (Lugia) into OHKOs.
  16. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

    And decks like Darkrai don't OHKO and have Dark Claw, which still doesn't allow for OHKO's, or they use non-EX's and have a better option in Silver Bangle. Again, I already said Plasma will use Muscle Band, but it really will be more of a luxury for them- Thundurus already puts them in range for KO's with Lugia and Red Signal allows them to pick and choose their targets.
    Yveltal will not-actually can not- make a format insanely fast, because we've had Mewtwo, and people know how to beat it, along with how much energy you need past the turn after you use mini-Y.
    50 min Bo3 has been around for a while now. Attrition decks can think of it as Bo1 simply because that's the best way for them to play.

    *In case you were about to say "So how do you beat it?"- Most decks can OHKO, so you just load up, and blow it up. Virizion does 50, Laserbank(even for a turn it will do 30, so no "but Shadow Circle") then even if you OHKO them(which you will be hard pressed to do, don't even try to argue that. Four energy to take out a fully charged Lugia is one thing, but six to KO a Virizion isn't happening. And yes, that's Dark Claw included.) they can Megalo Cannon wich will wipe nearly all your energy off the board, and dare I say permanently. Darkrai just Night Spears, and it deals with getting hit with at least one OHKO per game, which, again, you'll need quite a bit of energy to do.
  17. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I'm actually starting to lean toward the side of Yveltal being better than Darkrai for this format. It really is the fact that it can hit harder than Darkrai and is also an early game threat. Keep in mind that you don't NEED to have enough Energy to OHKO for Yveltal to be a threat either. But it's always possible to have enough to OHKO really quickly with stuff like Dark Patch DCE and Yveltal XY.

    This doesn't mean Darkrai isn't in theory a better attacker than Yveltal is. I think he is better, if it only wasn't for that pesky 50 minutes for 3 games.
    PellOfTheTundra likes this.
  18. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

    Whoever else has the mindset to play as Bo1 and play your regular game, which usually takes 35-40 minutes, please raise your hand.[DOUBLEPOST=1392088286][/DOUBLEPOST]It really is amazing how your brain functions while relieving oneself. @PellOfTheTundra what's your play style?
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
    Dweaver likes this.
  19. Alastair

    Alastair Mr. Evil Dr. Porkchop

    Sometimes decks that do the best are ones that do not hit OHKOs, mainly because sometimes the opponent will have planned for that particular pokemon to be koed, and when you deny that, it becomes your advantage due to the fact that having damage on the board is better than not... it all comes down to strategy... that is what this game is about.
    But it doesn't really matter. Point being that there are only three competitive decks that use OHKOs as their best option: RayquazaEX, Black KyuremEX, and GenesectEX.
  20. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    So I've been trying to build a speed deck with the focus around Yveltal EX. The goal is to actually stream them and Darkrai is really only here for it's ability. Although the strategy is slightly different from a normal Darkrai deck, I don't think that it is too different and it could probably go in this thread. So here's the deck:

    Pokemon: 9

    3 Yveltal EX
    2 Darkrai EX
    2 Sableye DE
    1 Yveltal XY
    1 Bouffalant DR

    Trainers: 39

    4 Juniper
    4 N
    2 Colress
    2 Random Receiver
    2 Bicycle

    4 Ultra Ball
    4 Dark Patch
    4 Hypnotoxic Laser
    3 Energy Switch
    3 Muscle Band
    1 Tool Scrapper
    1 Professor's Letter
    1 Escape Rope
    1 Dowsing Machine

    2 Vribank City Gym
    1 Shadow Circle

    Energy: 12

    9 Dark
    3 DCE

    Anyways I'm looking for advice on this deck. I played a couple of games with it on playtcg and although I haven't lost any of the games yet, I don't like how inconsistent it is. Ideally I would like to have 2 Yveltal charged up by turn 3, however this current list isn't that fast and it burns through resources. (This is my first attempt at using Bicycle in any deck.) So any advice on how to make this deck faster and more consistent would be greatly appreciated. Bouffalant is for the mirror match as it can OHKO an opposing Yveltal EX, while Shadow Circle is for the occasional Raichu/Dugtrio deck. Although I don't know how common the latter of the two will be.

    Once again I could really use some advice on this deck, thanks in advance! :D