Flips and Tips: Moving on from the Most Recent Rule Changes in the Pokemon TCG

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by eriknance, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. eriknance

    eriknance Member

  2. areuter

    areuter Member

    Great read, but on the Victini LTR section of the article in the deck ideas, you spelled Victini as Victino.
  3. Adam

    Adam Noice bruv, innit.

    Good catch! Should be fixed now.
    areuter likes this.
  4. yelsha42

    yelsha42 Member

    Really enjoyed this! Love considering when outside-the-square rogues are actually viable, and there were a couple on your list I'd totally forgotten about. The Catcher discussion was really intriguing. Finally, I'd be very interested in a How to Use Personality Types in Pokemon TCG article! Sounds thought provoking. +1 :)
  5. webjefita

    webjefita New Member

    Enjoyed the article. My family love to make up Rogue decks. You mention Garchomp/Altaria several times, but do you really think that is better now than the Quad Garchomp list (similar to the French one)? Second, how do you think those 4 Catcher spots would be best used in that deck? We were thinking Escape Rope/Tool Scrapper.
  6. thematteo0

    thematteo0 The quintessentially British gentleman.

    Interesting article, just prior to reading this I was thinking about some interesting combinations that could work well in the new format and then like you I remembered about Shedinja/Ninjask so I thought I would try testing it as the concept seemed pretty strong. At first I started testing the Sableye DEX variant of the deck assuming it would be the best variant but quickly found that Sableye DEX actually made the deck very clunky and I rarely got a chance to use it. Its most optimal use would be early game but the change in first turn rules means that the 1st turn Junk Hunt isn't happening and by the second turn you are probably gonna want to start attacking with other things.

    I found the deck had major problems with Darkrai EX/Garbodor/Sableye DEX in particular because they can block our Abilities and I have no way to bring out and kill a Garbodor DRX. In order to counter the problem I went back to an old favourite of mine when I built the deck originally back in DRX format and put in two Terrakion NVI (LTR) and three Fighting Energies which improved the match-up a lot because I could now OHKO a Darkrai EX. The deck can pretty much fight it out with every meta-game deck right now although it often sometimes falls right at the last hurdle sometimes. The deck has a brilliant Blastoise match-up due to Ninjask KO'ing Keldeo EX with a Silver Bangle and Blastoise with a LaserBank combo, the teched Sigilyph DRX blocking off an EX attacker and the opponent not usually using any Pokemon Catcher.

    Right now the worst problem for the deck is probably Plasma, I am considering tech-ing either some Enhanced Hammers (although most Plasma variants seem to be dropping most of their Special Energies now apart from Plasma Energies) and also Silver Mirror isn't perfect because the opponent often runs 2 Tool Scrapper. Even if the cards did test better the list is fairly tight with the other techs I have in there so I probably wouldn't fit it in anyway. So right now I'm just accepting the negative match-up as its still winnable and there isn't a lot I can do about it.
  7. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    I'm going to be playing Ninjask at my league challenge tomorrow. I think you just have to sack in the Garbodor matchup, and not waste space on the Terrakion and Fighting and just focus on keeping a consistent stream of Shedninja going. If Garbodor is going to see play in your area, it's probably best to just keep it in your bag and play something else.

    I think part of the problem you've had with Plasma is probably from the inconsistency caused by that. The list I'm going to play is just simple consistency, no real techs, just Ninjask, Shedninja, Nincada, Sigilyph, and Mr. Mime. I do play Life Dew to turn Mr. Mime or Sigilyph into a Shedninja, and I play 3 Super Rod plus Rescue Scarfs to keep my Shedninja going all game. Plasma has been one of the easier matchups for me. Just knock out a Kyurem or two, and then you can wall with Sigilyph the rest of the game.
  8. eriknance

    eriknance Member

    If anything, Garchomp with Altaria gains from the recent rule changes. I believe the reason people discounted Altaria is because it was so easy to Catcher/KO. Now, however, your Altarias will last longer on the bench, meaning your damage can stack up better. We do, however, need to consider whether or not the damage stacking hits the "magic numbers." Let's see. Garchomp + 2 Altaria = 100/140 damage. This is very feasible with a weakened Catcher. At 100 damage, Mach Cut is an effective 2HKO (discarding a Special Energy can be really nice). Dragonblade, on the other hand, is great when you factor in Silver Bangle. It OHKOs 170 HP EXs and Black Kyurem EX, which is really nice. With another Altaria, you're now landing OHKOs on all other EXs. I'm not an expert on Garchomp/Altaria, but I'm going to be looking into the deck within the next week or two, so I'll let you know how my testing pans out.

    The important thing about hitting for 140 damage, I should note, is that it also deals with the upcoming Stage 2 decks that are quickly gaining popularity. Empoleon DEX, Gothitelle LTR, Hydreigon DRX (weakness), Dusknoir BCR... these guys all get blown away by Dragonblade. Another important thing about an 80-100 damage Mach Cut is that it OHKO's Sableye DEX, a potential threat if it stays on the field for too long.

    In mirror matches, Altaria lets you get OHKOs for a single Energy while the opponent. Without it, you'll lose unless you get really lucky.

    As far as the 4 Pokemon Catcher, I need to do some testing before making a conclusion. Even with the flip, it's a powerful card.[DOUBLEPOST=1385419896][/DOUBLEPOST]
    Just curious Charranitar about how this turned out?
    webjefita likes this.
  9. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    I got 4th place place at a small one. I went 1-0-2. I won all my game one's, but they did bo3 for some reason and I ended up with two ties. Every deck I played also had Red Signal or Catcher/Junk Hunt so they were able to being up Ninjask for ko's which was annoying.