Fulop’s Korner: Out of Ideas?

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by Ruiner, May 15, 2012.

  1. Ruiner

    Ruiner Active Member

    This is the thread for discussing the following article:

    Fulop’s Korner: Out of Ideas?

    Post your comments and questions below! Any and all honest feedback is much appreciated.
  2. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod.

    Have yet to read the article but it's pretty cool that the author is the first poster now. Will place my real thoughts here once I've read it.
  3. Adam

    Adam Noice bruv, innit.

    Yeah I figured out a way to get it to show the actual author for the first poster. I'm glad somebody noticed, haha. Eventually I'll get it so that the discussion link at the end of the article links directly to the discussion for the article (and not just the forum).
    dakotabeboys likes this.
  4. Pikabruce

    Pikabruce Member

    Yeah, but you can easily Junk Arm for Dual Ball. If you just played PONT, then Junk Arm for Ultra Ball, then play Ultra Ball, then play the Pokemon you got and attach an energy to it, your entire hand is gone! :eek: If you start with only 4 cards in your hand, it is impossible to Junk Arm + Ultra Ball this turn. :(
  5. Retro

    Retro Member

    I may drop a Level Ball for another Ultra Ball, though.
  6. Ruiner

    Ruiner Active Member

    Ok, I finally figured out how to work with the new Forum log in, as it was actually giving me a lot of trouble getting it to accept my log in, then allow me onto the forums.

    Regarding the p0tential for Ultra Ball to deplete hand size mid to late game: The card isn't autopilot. You do have to ration your resources a bit with it, but it really hasn't been an issue for me at all, and the upside has caused it to play so much better than any of the alternatives for me so far. I don't like Junk Arming for Ultra Ball OR Dual Ball. You draw a lot of cards in this format, getting additional Pokemon throughout the game isn't something your doing all the time, so yes, a JA for an Ultra Ball can be painful. Yet realize, 25% of the time Dual Ball FORCES you to need to JA for it because it just flat out fails. 100% of the time, Ultra Ball just gets you the card you need. Arguing that getting a 2nd use out of the Ultra Ball is ineffecient doesn't make a ton of sense when the overall argument is " I have to discard 5 cards ( plus the original 3 ) to get 2 Pokemon" vs " 25% of the time, I have to spend 4 cards just to get one" which actually still averages out to 4 cards per Pokemon. I've lost enough games getting 2 tails off of an early Dual Ball to know I would EASILY take the card that doesn't flip in that scenario. In a deck like Zeels, I think the argument is even more lopsided as it lets you get ANY Pokemon, where as both Dual Ball and Level Ball are extremely restrictive ( and you want to discard electrics. Its an upside, not a drawback at this point. )

    Also, Pikabruce, if you PONT into 6 cards, and have: (Junk Arm, 4 cards, Supporter ) You can Junk Arm away 2 cards, Discard 2 to Ultra Ball, get the Pokemon, and still have your Supporter for the next turn, which is actually a perfectly acceptable line of play. The # of games you'll lose because you are unable to afford to discard enough to use Ultra Ball is going to be FAR less than the # of games you lose off of bad Dual Ball flips. Remember, the odds of even going 0/4 on the card is 6.25%, which is a # I'd say is also higher than the # of times Ultra Ball significantly hurts you in a game.
  7. kevstoy

    kevstoy DittoChu Trainer

    Hey Chris,

    Another solid article. It's always a pleasure to read your work and I always learn something new from the insightful perspectives you bring.

    I'll chime in and say I'd be interested in a Prof. Cup article as it's my first year of competing. Not sure how broad an audience it'll be impactful for, but I remember last year, whoever did the Prof Cup article (think it was you), I remember thinking it was a nice "alternative read" in prep for Nats and was fun to build some of those decks and play against some professors that needed practice.
  8. Testi

    Testi Front Page Contributor

    I've started running Energy Exchanger in my CMT and it has worked out very well for me so far in testing. Being able to pull out or put away DCEs and Fighting energy has been really helpful.
  9. Ruiner

    Ruiner Active Member

    I actually have a huge soft spot for Energy Exchanger. I always had it in and out of my LuxChomp lists, and with this format coming down to DCE drops a decent amount of the time, I'm open to considerations for the card. Unfortunately, the list is pretty tight as it is. Being forced into adding Fighting Energy does make it a far more alluring card though. I'll have to try to trim a card just for the sake of including an E Exchanger to see if I like how it plays.
  10. Roarkiller

    Roarkiller Member

    OMG energy exchanger. Now I know what I'm missing from my dark.dec list.
  11. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes

  12. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Nice article! I especially enjoyed seeing mageels as it's my favorite deck in this format, has the surprise factor going for it etc. I'm just wondering how the deck works without collector... seeing as I always had collector + Sage's in my older build (I know ultra ball is nice but it can't get out several magnemites without discarding precious resources...)
  13. Pikabruce

    Pikabruce Member

    Whenever you are in need of a title, you can always use a variation of:
    "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"
    In this case, it would have been:
    Dual Ball? We Don't Need No Stinkin' Dual Ball!

    Adam likes this.
  14. Retro

    Retro Member

    I tried the Ultra Ball version today. It seemed considerably slower than the Dual Ball verison. Plus, I was in a few situations where I had to discard stuff I didn't want to.
  15. Ruiner

    Ruiner Active Member

    Retro: the speed "difference" almost has to be variance. Not only has that not shown its head in any of my 50+ games with the build, but it doesn't make sense how that would be the case from a theoretical standpoint either. The issue of having to discard cards is a legitimate downside of the card ( albeit one that has barely proven to be a substantial issue at all to me ) but I really don't see how the card is "slower" than Dual Ball at all once you realize that every time Dual Ball nets you a double heads, it also nets you a total whiff. Over time, Dual Ball averages into being exactly an Ultra Ball's output.

    MagEels: You don't really need to swarm with Magnemites. I've played Magneboar, Megazone, and Mag Eels over the past year, and love Magnezone Prime probably more than anyone else in the game, but this isn't like those decks. Magnezone is a luxury. You play the Mewtwo game, and Magnezone helps you maximize your results at that. If you can't get Magnezone out? You have your primary game plan still. You can't build a deck that needs to get evolutions out, so Magnezone's role is very much different now. If they are killing your Magnemites, they are ignoring your Mewtwo, which is reasonable. If you get yourself a bit stretched for Mite access, wait to bench them when your applying Mewtwo pressure midgame. If they go after Magnemite, they ignore your more relevent Mewtwo threat, which is generally good. That being said, feel free to try some Collectors, and let me know how it does. It is one of the less tested decks in my article since it just came to my attention, so there is likely a lot of room for streamlining and improvement.

    How does everyone feel about Tornadus EX in Zeels so far? I'd love more input on that regard.
  16. airhawk06

    airhawk06 Active Member

    @ Ruiner: I'm so torn on Tornadus EX in Zeels. It sounds great in theory, but I'm not just sure how much it adds to the deck. It doesn't really add a ton that Tornadus EPO does not already do. They both counter Terrakion very well. Yes, Tornadus EX deals with Groudon EX better, but not by a ton. Basically, with Tornadus EPO you can get two shots off on Groudon EX for 160 damage. Then you can simply use anything else to finish it off. Also, Mewtwo EX is very good against Groudon EX. So, there is some upside (more HP, slightly better attack), but the down side is huge.

    Tornadus EX in Zeels against another Zeels deck just screams "take two prizes." It is such a huge liability against what will be a huge deck. In CMT, Torndus EX is not dead against Zeels because the ability to open with Tornadus on turn one is higher.

    Overall, I think that one copy is a solid play in Zeels. I am not buying more than that.
  17. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    yeah I see what your saying, I tried classic mageels yesterday, and while getting close, I couldn't pull off any wins like I used to.... I'll try the mewtwo focus build soon, I might pull a couple cards for collector, because it's so good in the deck (I'll try to keep the ultra ball count up there though...)

    tornadus EX is great as a one of tech in zeels (the SAB version) and you could probably run two with the right build.... but I'm not changing my deck drastically to fit 2+ tornadus in it when zekrom IS the focus of the deck, it's not called zekeels for nothing =P
  18. Retro

    Retro Member

    If it averages to 1 Pokemon (same as Ultra Ball), then why not run it? Because of the chance of failure? And, it also has the chance of getting 2.
    I still think it's worth not discarding the cards.

    I love Tornadus EX in ZekEels. It has donking power and it's a great attacker + great Fighting counter.
  19. Pikabruce

    Pikabruce Member

    That's true in terms of the played card. But since there is essentially no cost to playing Dual Ball, it can be played more often (either directly, or via Junk Arm). There are situations where you either don't have the necessary cards to discard, or else the only card you have is something you don't want to discard (like if your 3-card hand consists of Ultra Ball, energy, supporter, and you naturally want to play the supporter).
  20. arcanyx

    arcanyx The #1 Procrastinator

    A fresh article Chris, and a very different Pokemon search engine. I tried Ultra Ball at league today and I felt it was a bit hard to get Tynamos or any basics for that matter out. Just didn't have enough of cards most of the time to discard, or they were too vital. There were times when Junk Arm was available but all I had to Junk Arm for were Ultra Balls, and I didn't have enough cards to use it for effective Pokemon search. Anything I'm missing here?