Garbodor/Cobalion (Hello Float Stone)

Discussion in 'Deck Help & Development' started by WuBMaYNE, May 6, 2013.

  1. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    Pokemon - 12
    Trubbish - 3
    Garbodor - 3
    Cobalion EX - 3
    Landorus EX - 2
    Cobalion NV - 1

    Energy - 12
    Blend Energy - 4
    Prism Energy - 4
    Metal - 4

    Supporters - 12
    Juniper - 4
    N - 4
    Bianca - 2
    Skyla - 2

    Trainers - 24
    Float Stone - 4
    Catcher - 4
    Switch - 2
    Max Potion - 4
    Scramble Switch - 1
    Rescue Scarf - 2
    Ultra Ball - 2
    Heavy Ball - 2
    Pokemon Center - 2
    Random Receiver - 1

    Decks been edited, test number 2! Thoughts!
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  2. InfinityMinusOne

    InfinityMinusOne Has a tendency to exist

    To be perfectly honest I don't see much reason behind Mewtwo EX. It won't be doing too much to most of the format (Thundurus EX only uses one energy, uneven prize trade with Kyurem PLF, Deoxys EX won't attack until necessary, etc.). You'd be better off adding in either more supporters or a small Etherdex engine/Plasma Engine (though the latter would probably require the removal of other cards as well). Regardless, 4 Max Potion should be reserved for Cobalion/Plasma Badge/Deoxys EX builds rather than builds such as this that want to deal more than 30 damage at a time.
  3. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    You mind giving me an example build of Cobalion/Deoxys, cause that definitely sounds interesting. And also to be perfectly honest I didn't want to run Mewtwo EX, I initially was thinking about running Landorus EX and Cobalion EX with Prism and Blend energys.
  4. InfinityMinusOne

    InfinityMinusOne Has a tendency to exist

    The Cobalion/Deoxys thing was more theorymon than anything else (Otaku mentioned it in a different thread), but if I had to give a list off the top of my head:

    Pokemon:
    3 Cobalion EX
    4 Deoxys EX
    1 Keldeo EX

    Trainers:
    4 Juniper
    3 N
    3 Bianca
    2 Skyla
    2 Ultra Ball
    2 Plasma Ball
    4 Plasma Badge
    3 Float Stone
    2 Switch
    4 Max Potion
    1 Super Rod
    1 Dowsing Machine

    Energy:
    10 Metal Energy

    As a skeleton, totaling to 49 cards, unless my math is off. There might be something I completely missed, but regardless there are several things you might consider putting in here, from more Draw support to Revive to Cobalion NVI (a little 7-Prize action, maybe?) to even possibly some Hypnotoxic Laser with VCG to boost Cobalion's first attack to a potential 2HKO. Like I said, it's a skeleton, it's rough, and it's off the top of my head.
  5. Keldeo with Tool Scrapper ruins this, one turn of deluge and your Cobalion/Landorus are dead. They have 4 Skyla 1 Tool Scrapper, 5 ways of gettin it so pretty consistent too. What is it with these weird decks? I can understand you want to hard counter the Deoxys deck but at the cost of every other matchup? Come on, you need to just face facts: Thundurus Deoxys is the main player for BDIF in this new format and you either play that, or go with an extremely consistent Keldeo Blastoise list (one that streams Black Kyurem EX, and fast). Darkrai Absol is also an option to deal with Deoxys, but has a shaky Blastoise matchup.
  6. InfinityMinusOne

    InfinityMinusOne Has a tendency to exist

    That sort of thinking effectively shuts down not only this entire subforum, but half (if not more) of the Competitive Deck Discussion subforum as well. Though I will admit that I often-times do discourage the use of some unused or cluttered deck ideas, I try to avoid blatantly stating, "play one of the Tier 1 decks or fail as a player" (or at least that's what I got from your post). New ideas that might have a spark of potential make up half this site (or haven't you seen any of the Tier 2/3 decks?), and if you shut them down, all creativity goes down the toilet.
    KennethXEcker and Otaku like this.
  7. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    While some of the best decks are indeed blatantly obvious and engineered by the card R&D team, even those have some wiggle room for how they are built. Then there are the decks that are clearly a total surprise, combining cards in a way that wasn't foreseen, or at least accurately foreseen.

    Metagame decks function completely by countering the top decks in the format; the player has to accurately read (or of course get lucky XD) and run them where they can work, but that is how Quad Sigilyph and most Garbodor decks win; focusing on just Plasma Basics is unwise, but if it is as successful as it is in Japan that could be all that is needed as it might make up the entire metagame of a particular tournament. I would also consider all those cards that wax and wane in power and play; Enhanced Hammer, Tool Scrapper, etc.; these cards would be worthless one tournament but the best possible tech the next, then back to being worthless at yet another event, all based on how the metagame flows.

    Plus some players don't consider it "winning" and "fun" unless they are being "creative"... and it is a target audience recognized and pursued by the game's creators so complaining about them doesn't really make a lot of sense.
  8. InfinityMinusOne

    InfinityMinusOne Has a tendency to exist

    The point of having Deoxys EX in the build that I posted was to boost the power of Cobalion EX's first attack potentially twofold or up to even 70 damage (with the help of Plasma Badge), possibly to even higher levels with the assistance of Lasers (they were one of the options I suggested as filler for the remaining slots). However, as I said, it was rough, off the top of my head, and a completely theorymon-based idea I had heard from another thread.
  9. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    You honestly believe the list I made is that far off from being Tier 1? It's just an idea, I might not have the Deoxys, or Thundurus in time to build a meta deck, or maybe I just don't want to play a plasma deck. This isn't Yugioh, I like Pokemon for the pure reason that everything has a chance if you make it correctly, and I think my idea so far has a chance. Also I've never ran into a Blastoise deck that I couldn't handle with any of my decks.
    cyndaquil likes this.
  10. Otaku, Infinite, I appreciate your posts; I just feel that some of the ideas being discussed will lead to low to mid field finishes at best, and give false hope to people looking to counter Deoxys, no offense intended. Wubmayne, I also understand your point; as I have stated I am merely trying to save you some disappointment later down the line. I've tested a lot of random deck ideas to try and avoid buying the new money cards and all the ideas have either flopped wholly, or beaten Deoxys only to lose to literally everything else. This honestly would have fits VS Keldeo, as Superior Energy Retrieval makes Tool Scrapper only needed for that one turn.

    One idea I'm going to throw out there for someone to hopefully make work, Tornadus EX (DEX)/Bouffalant DRX with Plasma Badge and Plasma acceleration. If you go with Lasers and Virbank you can hit t1 for 150 on an EX (Bouffalant).
  11. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    We are countering Deoxys EX? I didn't know that. XD

    Seriously though, if anything the initial deck suggestion was about countering a Special Energy rich metagame, which would include multiple potential Plasma decks. "False hope" is not the aim nor is it being given; notice that this isn't the Competitive Deck Discussion forum. Some people measure "victory" differently than others; a Johnny that takes first place net decking an established, straightforward list or a Timmy playing cards he doesn't like would find it a chore, not a win.

    Some things to remember about Deluge decks is that they are very tight on space and that this is a format with hand disruption; I agree that the odds are very much in the Deluge deck's favor but sometimes decks win because others misread the metagame. Quad Sigilyph is a good example; the decks that faced it in its "big win" all either didn't run Safeguard counters, didn't run enough Safeguard counters, or had horrible luck. Seriously, re-read the report if you don't remember.

    I do not consider it likely, but if enough players favor the Special Energy intensive decks, countering that may make for a strategic metagame play.

    You say this like it is a new idea; it isn't. You forgot the Deoxys EX, however. ;)
  12. This is true, and I accept this. I applaud the thinking outside the box, facing a slew of metagame decks can become cumbersome.

    I have played "Deluge" decks for quite some time now and they aren't that tight on space; while they can seem so it depends on how much consistency you devote to it. Quad Sigilyph was a deck that was a one-time deal, then people got wise and upped their non-EX counts (some going all the way with Meoletta). Oh, and I did read the report, my memory is just fine.

    It would be a strategic metagame play...if literally every round was a Team Plasma deck.

    I say it like it's an idea to spur some more conversation. I have in fact already tested the deck, with and without Deoxys EX, but didn't mention it as the people looking on these forums are looking for a deck that doesn't need 4+ expensive EXs.
  13. KueKas

    KueKas Member

    I've been testing this deck with plasma badge/colress machine/plasma energy for energy acceleration and it is awessome when you can get all the pieces when you need them but its seems to much situational. Anyway, from my testings, I would recomend you to take a Cobalion EX (sometimes I don't even need the 2nd one) and replace it with a retaliate Terrakion (which is HUGE against Plasma and Darkrai decks) and replace some special energys for basic fighting (hammers will be around....and they hurt a lot!). I've been using (without plasma engine) 4 Prisms, 2 Blend, 3 Metal and 3 Fighting energys and it works really well.
  14. cyndaquil

    cyndaquil Gravia is love, Gravia is life

    This. SteveBaPanda has come up with a list a bit like this, whilst I edited and then came up my own concept- Garbodor/Bouffalant/Landy EX/Tornadus EX. It's in deck help & development, called 'Plasmafied Big Basics'.
    Also I'm not sure if SteveBaPanda wants me to post his list, so I'm not going to until I've asked him.
  15. SteveBaPanda

    SteveBaPanda Putting SA on the map

    You can share my list :)
    I was aiming at the 150 with Bouff and Laserbank, but with the added Deoxys so you can quite often OHKO 170 and 180 Ex's. It's worked quite well so far, but it does have a very bad Cobalion EX atch up, because the deck is entirely made out of special energy.