Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Wrags23, Nov 24, 2013.
I suppose we all could run Darkrai since it won world's twice and the Klaczinski Open.
I've just played against this with my virizion deck, they got a garbodor out and they made a good game out of it.
I only won because I hit my last switch on my 4th prize.
What about 2-2 Flareon instead of Garbodor line?
You gotta remember that this deck was made to lock. Adding Flareon takes away from its lock potential.
I think that the best course of action for this deck against Virizion is to just hit as much as you can with Accelgor/Mew and hope that you can Sinister Hand to KO the Virizion and get the lock going.
This deck is extremely meta reliant. Playing it in a field full of Virizion or Espeon DEX is going to be a cry to not win a game the whole day. It's probably best to just focus on consistency instead of making a deck work when it just isn't going to.
This deck took a 3rd place in Japan with a 2-2 Flareon line and 2 Bangles, that's why I've sugested it (http://60cards.net/blog/posts/detail/107). You can't lock a VirGen deck, so, while you're playing a deck with +20 Pokémons , it wolud be easy to discard some of them to improve Flareon's attack (7 Pokés or 4 Pokés + Bangle to 0HKO a Virizion EX or a Genesect EX). Bangle can be usefull in Blastoise matchup too, leting you 0HKO a Keldeo EX with Accelgor ( (50 + Bangle) x2 + poison = 170 = 0HKO). Those changes will hurt you less than a Garbodor line.
I suppose the main problem I have with Flareon is that it isn't as simply as attacking once with Flareon and winning the game. Your opponent will have the opportunity to Emerald Slash multiple times making it so multiple attackes are able to KO Flareon. If you get lucky and they can't then I guess it's a good day. I have thought about Flareon in this deck before, but I will do a bit of testing to see what works.
Thanks for the link, btw.
Flareon's attack can be copied with DCE+Mew EX, for what it's worth. If Mew survives the following turn, you can Deck and Cover to wipe the damage off.
It's a big chunk of space though.
My issue comes up when you consider that decks teching Virizion (Hydreigon, Plasma, others), Flareon does literally nothing.
Good point. Garbodor seems more favorable in that scenario. Any fire based tech will be almost useless against anything not VirGen.
Garbodor has more applications while allowing a soft lock with Accelgor. It also only takes two slots compared to Flareon's 4 (with or without Silver Bangle, up to you). A hit with Flareon means no lock at all.
So there's a Trubbish in Dark Explorers now, right? Also, there's no such legal set called "BEC"
E is right next to R on the keyboard... it's an honest mistake. Also, mixing up abbreviations for Dragons Exalted and Dark Explorers is not an uncommon error. You don't have to be so technical and critical of everything, and if you do decide to correct their mistake, you can just tell them. You have no need to be sarcastic and not even tell them what the correct abbreviation is. Don't be that guy.
Flareon seems like it could be really good in here. You run so many Pokemon already, discarding them shouldn't be a problem. Doesn't quite fix the Hydreigon problem (but if you can discard enough Pokemon for some big Vengeance ko's it can even be good in that matchup).[DOUBLEPOST=1386553204][/DOUBLEPOST]In testing this, Ive found that Flareon is pretty sick with Dusknoir in its own right. Going to have to work with that one some!
Woops, looks like I messed up some of the set abbreviations. Dark Explorers and Dragons Exalted are so darn similar. Thanks for the corrections.
I didn't go into detail on those specific card choices, but I'm confident you can figure it out.
In anything not Virizion based, we simply dump the 4 cards in the Flareon line? Or is Silver Bangle still being considered too?
I tried it out with 3-3 Flareon and no bangles and it worked pretty well.
I think for my cities I'll just play it straight with some max potions for against Hydreigon with Virizion and Darkrai with Keldeo to make my goths last until I can Sinister Hand ko's on those Pokemon. I'll just concede Virgen. Haven't played against it yet in 3 lc's and Victini EX made an appearance in the meta so that might scare people off.
Try a 2-2 Flareon line and 2 bangles. Bangles are so important against Keldeos EX with your Accelgors
I've been testing this all week, and I settled on just playing straight with 2 Max Potion and 2 Silver Bangle with a thicker Accelgor line.
What I've found is that Virizion isn't so much the problem, but rather Genesect's Red Signal is the problem. With Silver Bangle, you can 3HKO a tech Virizion and still have 70 spare damage to move around after you take the knockout on it. Against Darkrai with a tech Keldeo EX, you can get a 2HKO worth of damage with Silver Bangle deck and covers, and you use the Max Potion to clear off the damage from Night Spear on your Gothitelle to let it last while you're in the process of knocking out the Keldeo.
Virizion/Mewtwo, again, Silver Bangle/Deck and Cover as much as possible for 80 damage, while Max Potioning off the Gothitelle, and then pick your spots with X-ball.
This leaves Virizion/Genesect as the only poor matchup, as they shut off your poison as well as can bring up Accelgor and Shelmets and Dusknoir for knockouts and turn off the trainer lock. I'd put that matchup at about 99/1 in their favor. If you can get past all of their Red Signal Energy + Lasers, you have a shot of creating a situation where you can just Deck and Cover with Mew and promote another Mew that they won't be able to knockout with Megalo Cannon.
But that happens so rarely that it is for the most part an auto loss. Tech Keldeo or Virizion though, and the matchup should still be in your favor.
This makes the deck a very intriguing play imo, at least for now. If Hydreigon bumps its counts of Virizion to two, then that becomes a much poorer matchup. But as is with most just running one, you have a deck that has one auto loss and favorable matchups against the rest of the field. I think that's a good trade, at least until the meta adjusts.
Is this deck still any good
At my first cities I went to I out-sped one with Plasma.
At my second cities I beat it by out-speeding it. I was using the hammer-spam version of DarkGarb.
And the deck can't beat Virgen to save its life.
So apart from that this deck is the BDIF.
Trevenant outclasses Gothitelle hard. It is *technically* the same deck, but Trevenant makes it so you are nearly guaranteed to get the turn 2 item lock every game.
Thanks J look into it when ts released here
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