Last Minute Considerations for US Nationals

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by Crawdaunt, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

  2. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    Intriguing, to say the least. Thanks for the article.
  3. rafaelkatsuya

    rafaelkatsuya Member

    I don't know what to think about how reliable are this Canadian National's results.

    Mister Lesage is in the border line between stacking his deck or declumping before game 3, but Mister Lyon has not shuffled his deck for the match 2 and 3. For that reason I am not sure how good Blastoise really is.

    By the way great article and great analysis ! Thanks a lot.
  4. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    It's not so much about the individual players (TPCI will hopefully deal with them), it's about how far we can trust the success of Blastoise.

    I watched several of Sami's matches with the deck at UK Nats. He had to play through a ton of bad starts to get second place. Now I see people with 'questionable' shuffling getting T1 3 Squirtle and Beach out game after game. Do they have better lists than Sami? Are they better players? (in case you are wondering, the answers are 'no' and 'no' respectively).

    Anyhoo, I enjoyed the article, especially the mathcup section. I hope you get to write more in future too.
    tokyovampire likes this.
  5. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Zach won off his own skill and strength of Blastoise. He may have 'declumped' but he always shuffled after. Some times more than others, but usually sufficiently.

    Curtis, I can't really say anything other than that it was likely some of his 8-0 through Swiss success, only came thanks to mana weaving. But the proportions* of the metagame should be fairly similar. I don't think looking at Canadian nats past the top 32 is very enlightening. It was a sad year for the Canadian tcg :/

    And FlareStarfire, indeed I imagine. I showed flare the pre-amble to this article, and for a long while I was intending on using a Keldeo-focused Blastoise/Keldeo/Mewtwo list. I still actually have faith in that build, but I don't think it's overall superior to Black Kyurem EX at this point. Just different, and more stable. Wins are harder, and losses aren't as big of blowouts.
    ottawacollector likes this.
  6. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    baby_mario I saw Lesages list on OTB, and some things I found to be really shaky. Did Sami ever actually post his list?
  7. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Nah, I don't think he ever does. It was really a consistency list though. No Exeggcute or Mime.
  8. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    I figured. Don't even see lists playing scrapper.... aren't they scared of garbodor? Who knows...
  9. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes

    I want to play Vileplume for Worlds :p

    Will you be at Worlds?
  10. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Practically no Garbodor up here. I haven't seen a Garbodor list capable of dealing with Plasma very well, while also keeping a decent matchup across the metagame. I think that's made the prospect of running it high risk high reward. On top of that, its auto-win matchups (RayEels and Blastoise) aren't even the most popular right now, while Plasma can just outpressure it and OHKO Landorus if they use Landy.

    As I mentioned in my Blastoise list, it's not that I'm not scared of Garb, it's that it's only going to comprise like... 3-4% of the top cut. Scrapper is also a moot card against Float Stone lists. It's not like it shuts them off, it's just a minor annoyance. Not worth the space IMO.

    Watch that attitude attract a ton of Garbodor at US Nats. :p

    Vysekun I will be at Worlds
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
  11. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    Even though the vast majority of players will be playing Blastoise / Darkrai / Plasma, my brain assumes somehow all I'll see is Gothitelle / Garbodor / Klinklang and how sorry I'll be if I don't run scrapper / float or moltres / fire X)
  12. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    I'll be covering stacking on Tuesday and with a look at how planning on stacking can impact a deck listt in particular for blastoise.
  13. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    What did you end up playing at Nationals anyways? I didn't see your deck/list...did I miss it?
  14. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    I played Plasma.

    Pokemon - 10

    4 Deoxys EX
    2 Thundurus EX
    2 Kyurem PLF
    1 Tornadus EX PLF
    1 Lugia EX

    Trainers - 36

    4 Juniper
    4 N
    2 Skyla
    2 Bianca
    2 Colress

    4 Laser
    4 Catcher
    4 Colress Machine
    3 Switch
    1 Float Stone
    2 Ultra Ball
    1 Plasma Ball
    1 Scramble Switch
    0 Max Potion

    2 Virbank City Gym

    Energy - 14

    4 Plasma
    4 Prism
    4 Blend
    2 DCE

    I'd change the list for US Nats to include one Lightning instead of the 4th Blend (perhaps). And it may just be my paranoia, my dead draws, or my general past experiences, but I might instead just drop an Energy to throw in a 15th Supporter. I can't say I've had genuine problems with 14 supporters (I'd say my tournament experience was anomalous), and there's Tornadus EX PLF to help out. But still... I'd feel so comfortable with 15.

    Additionally, I really want my Max Potion back (another card that sits in the 61st card slot with the 4th Blend/15th Supporter). And it may, once again, have been my anomalous tournament experience, but Max Potion probably could have bailed out a couple of my games. I definitely recommend a Max Potion for US Nats. You can't rely on just drawing better than your opponents, and it's gonna be that game-changing card in the mirror. I kind of regret not playing it... Not sure if it could have fully bailed me out though. I was pretty dead, haha ^_^;

    This list is what the entire Victoria crew has been using since the 3rd week of Battle Roads. Every change we made to the deck, we changed back. We just couldn't really find any real improvements.
    JayHornung likes this.
  15. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    How did the low ball count treat you?
  16. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    3 works just fine. Haven't really needed 4 since you just bench Pokemon as you draw into them. There's no evolution or anything, and you don't really need more than 2 Ultra for discard outlets for Raiden Knuckle. Balls become dead weight in the late game. That said, I wouldn't mind a 4th, it's nice to be able to grab what you want to use. But it's certainly a card I cut in favour of any of the others I was discussing.