“Le Petit Caporal” – The Winter Waging of Empoleon (from Cities to Regionals)

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by JayHornung, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

  2. heero101086

    heero101086 New Member

    Why not run 2 Max Potion and a Dowsing Machine instead of 1 and Computer Search?

    2 Max Potion is so beneficial in the mirror. It destroys Darkrai if they can't get Virbank + Laser + Dark Claw for the OHKO on Empoleon. I mean, you lose one energy to heal off all energy with only those all one energy attackers.

    Dowsing Machine is your 3rd Super Rod, 5th Candy, 3rd Bangle, ... Your item you used but still need in the late game. Setting up fast May be important, but Empoleon shines in the mid to late game. The first hurdle is the beginning, but playing a tight list without the wiggle room for Dowsing is harder. Much harder.
    SamSoldier likes this.
  3. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    I've always preferred Computer Search over Dowsing Machine in most decks as it never a bad card. Unlike Dowsing it's dead in the early game and you can easily find yourself in situations where your forced to discard it. Also Dowsing doesn't help me stream Empoleons which is huge in mirror and Stoise. Personal preference and neither is right or wrong, but for every reason you have to play Dowsing I can give you one for Computer Search and vice versa.

    Max Potion is good imo, but it's not perfect. You don't always have the energy to pair with it and that was the biggest hurtle I had running more than 1. As for Darkrai EX at least in my experience they always seemed to have the Dark Claw/Bank/Laser. Its a really easy combo for them to get out. I would be more inclined to run the 3rd Beach for Darkrai EX than I would be to run a 2nd Max Potion.
  4. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Hey Jay, this was a great article! As Empoleon is my pet deck of this format (not that I'm getting much practice in) I love to see someone else's mindset as they develop the deck.

    I'm a Dowsing guy, but I see you already responded above (totally fair too).

    Glad to see the conclusion of "Leaf is all around better than Flare." :) Leafeon comes in every game to hit for decent-great damage for one energy. It's essentially my "5th Empoleon" in every matchup as it takes little setup and hits big for cheap. And of course, it's especially useful against Blastoise. Almost worth a 2-2 in the deck (but that really hurts your mirror).

    Small note: "I understand that intentional draws are to reward players for doing well in Swiss..." In defence of TPCI, they don't want intentional draws and as such don't have any intention of rewarding players who do well out of the gate. It's just a consequence of introducing draws back into the game, which they felt was more positive with the direction the game was heading.

    "The Blastoise mirror match is really similar to a very complex game of Chess..." Not a comment I thought I'd ever hear. The ability to make even the Blastoise mirror skilled makes this format awesome. Good riddance Gust of Wind. Also, "Withdraw..." amazing.

    1-0-1 Empoleon tech. <3

    Great article! Classic Jay article, which is always a good read :)
  5. coryc1

    coryc1 New Member

    I've run several variants of Empoleon in LCs and cities...thought I would share some thoughts for your consideration and comment.
    • I've liked how a 3-2 Accelgor works as an alternate attacker versus Leafeon/Flareon or Fighters. The paralysis is surprisingly good in the format and improves your latias ex matchup. It often buys you a turn to keep the stream of Empoleons going right when you need it.
    • I've found the Plasma matchup to be really difficult. All they really need is Thunderus and Absol and you're toast. I have been testing with a couple of Silver Mirrors and finding that to be pretty good...you must be careful about how many tools you have down at any one time so they have to burn their Tool Scrappers but in my testing most players have dropped to just one Tool Scrapper which translates to near auto-win if you can manage the Silver Mirrors effectively...helps Genesect match as well.
    • I'm a Dowsing person as well...useful to get a second Tool Scrapper, 2nd Super Rod, 5th Candy, 3rd Mirror or Bangle, etc. at the cost of just a bit of consistency.
    -Cory
  6. Squeaky

    Squeaky Member

    Should people play Empoleon if they do not have access to Tropical Beach? I have been testing with Battle City instead just to cover the stadium war.
  7. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Crawdaunt: One thing I didn't mention before was the fact that Computer Search could search out an energy. The ability to go Skyla-Comp-Energy was a nice option. I considered Energy Search, but felt like 6 energy was to low as I didn't always want to have to send one back with Super Rod...the deck was playing fine at 7, but not having an easy way to search them out did bother me.

    As for the ID...Don't defend Pokemon on this, it was a horrible decesion for such small events. Anything below Regionals (yes this includes States) there simply horrible for the game. What makes it worse is I don't see how they didn't see it, or haven't talked about stepping in to fix it.

    Cory: Plasma is so area specific, there is like none at all up here. I would have to play against at least 2 or 3 in swiss for me to devote 2/3 spots to mirrors. Deck space is so tight for an outside match up...at least in my area.[DOUBLEPOST=1387383565][/DOUBLEPOST]Squeaky: I would say no...but I hate playing a deck unless I play it the way "I want to". The deck is probably one of the better decks to play without Beach as once you set up you almost never Beach late game. I wouldn't bother with Battle City and instead just max Level and Ultra Balls to help get Empoleons out ASAP.
  8. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's too viable without Beach. People here have tried playing it without beach and end up neer really getting setup.

    The computer search thing is interesting. I'm finding myself moving back to it more and more. I played it in my Emboar this weekend and got turn 2 Emboar 4/5 games, with the only game I didn't get it was drawing no supporter/pc search and my mr mime getting laser donked.

    I played some games with my Empoleon list switching it in for dowsing machine too, and I have to say that it sets up much better and I don't really miss the extra rare candies or max potions as much as I thought I would.

    I think computer search will be my default ace spec for most decks going forward
  9. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    @JayHornung, fair enough. I more just meant that TPCI didn't want id's either. But it appears they didn't want single-round Swiss in pay-to-play events even more.

    @Squeaky, if you want a counter-stadium, try frozen city. At least that'll do something against non-plasma decks. Empoleon isn't too perturbed by the extra damage, but appreciates the extra damage on board for dusknoir to play with.

    That said, dunno if it's the best deck to run without beach. But if you wanted to, that's how I'd go.

    Interesting comments on comp search @all.