Miltank + Stage 2s

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by TheMantyke, May 10, 2014.

  1. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I play a 1-1 Electrode in my Miltank/Greninja deck and the limited testing that I've done have had it prove useful.
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  2. mistercyr

    mistercyr New Member

    During the french national championship, I was playing Empoleon-Miltank deck (Mike Diaz's list from UG article: with -1 startling megaphone and + 1 skyla).
    I finished 4 th, loss vs Stéphane Ivanoff's Yveltal/Garbodor deck during top 4.

    Now, I'm sure that moving the second megaphone was a great mistake, I was needing these for the Yveltal/Garbodor's Match'up.
    So, if I have actually some changes to do, the list will be this one:

    Pokémon : 18
    4 Piplup DEX
    2 Prinplup DEX
    4 Empoleon PLF
    2 Duskull FLF
    1 Dusknoir BCR
    3 Miltank FLF
    1 Jirachi-EX
    1 Exeggcute PLF

    Trainers : 35
    2 Professor Juniper
    4 N
    3 Skyla
    2 Colress
    1 Lysandre
    4 Ultra Ball
    2 Level Ball
    4 Rare Candy
    2 Switch
    2 Startling Megaphone
    2 Muscle Band
    1 Silver Bangle
    2 Super Rod
    1 Town Map
    1 Dowsing Machine
    2 Tropical Beach

    Energy : 7
    7 Water

    The deck is very strong vs VirGen, can have easy deal with Plasma with a fast start (thx to Dusknoir) but Yveltal/Garbodor is a hard match.
    During the tournament, I scored 5/1/1:
    3 x Win vs VirGen, 1 vs Plasma, 1 vs RayBoar (with electrode)
    1 Loss vs Yveltal/Garbodor
    1 Draw vs Yveltal/Garbodor

    I'm very proud of this amazing experience and I enjoyed a lot playing this funny deck!
    Not the BDIF, but so fun!
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
    jeffrey3421 likes this.
  3. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    Would you say that Empoleon is better than Greninja (Greninja was the first seed)?
  4. mistercyr

    mistercyr New Member

    No, I just think that Empoleon is another option with Miltank.
    In the French top 8, 4 Miltank decks were present, 2 decks with Greninja and 2 decks with Empoleon.
  5. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    Yup, Miltank also helps with Attack Command
  6. mistercyr

    mistercyr New Member

    "Sinister Hand" makes of "Powerful Friends" and "Attack Command", 2 very strong attacks and their combination offers OHKO on EX.
    The deck with "Diving Draw" is very consistent and you can play N easily to shut off your opponent.
    Last edited: May 27, 2014
  7. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I know Empoleon is pretty nice with Miltank. Was just wondering if you though Greninja was better than Empoleon or vice versa.
  8. Ein

    Ein The Mega Man Master

    Greninja vs. Empoleon as the ultimate Miltank deck. Now that is a good debate. Probably comes down to matchups, both are good.

    For me Empoleon edges out Greninja due to Diving Draws consistency and Empoleon being a better attacker.
  9. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    It's important to note that Greninja gets shut down HARD by Garbotoxin, whereas Empoleon can win the game in one turn with Dusknoir.
  10. Ein

    Ein The Mega Man Master

    Indeed, as well as having no trouble dealing with Pyroar. Greninja can nip Pyroar, but it not as easy as just attacking.

    ---
    Been trying out the OPs idea of Delphox/Dusknoir/Miltank and have been having some success. Not on the level of Empoleon, but a fun variant none-the-less. I tried blacksmith, it's too situational; much more important to get a Delphox out so I need supporters for consistency. I run all Fire and DCE to make Delphox as quick an attacker as possible. Fire + DCE + Tool means Delphox is hitting for 90-100 which is just fine.
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  11. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    The idea is more of having Delphox to draw cards and supply the stage 2 for Miltank. You can manually attach Fires to the phox but in the end Miltank is your attacker.
  12. Ein

    Ein The Mega Man Master

    I rarely attack with Delphox, but since you can only run 4 Miltank, she's called upon every once in a while even with super rod (usually very late game). With empoleon if you lose your last miltank on the board you can just promote Empoleon and for one energy keep the damage coming, not so much with this deck. That's why I opt for making Delphox at least worthwhile. I would never attack with Delphox if I don't have to.

    The biggest problem with the deck is Miltank is really the only reliable attacker (and source of damage). I threw in a Druddigon to help that out a bit. Revenging fallen Miltanks is sweet.
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  13. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    As I would assume is being able to exploit Dragon-Type Weakness, which features prominently in not one but two major decks known for their OHKOs. ;)

    I was wondering about that. Don't all Abilities get "shut down hard" by Garbotoxin? The big difference here is that Empoleon still functions as a great secondary attacker. Dusknoir is also getting shutdown by Garbotoxin (are we using it to attack?). If you can discard all Tools from all Garbodor, Sinister Hand can shuffle any damage in play onto Garbodor to KO it... but that requires there is enough damage already in play. It is more likely than having four Greninja to Water Shuriken a Garbodor (again having had its Tool discarded) to death the point of being KOed, but in both cases...

    ...isn't a clutch Lysandre or lucky Pokémon Catcher/Escape Rope plus Miltank w/Muscle Band the real answer? Miltank thankfully is the main attacker, and works regardless of Garbotoxin. That or do burn a Tool Scrapper/Startling Megaphone on Garbodor but ignore it because that situation makes taking down something else that much more important. I would of course give the advantage to Empoleon decks and some Delphox decks because even without Abilities, their Stage 2 is good to great attacker, unlike Greninja or Dusknoir or Butterfree. XD
  14. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    Butterfree/Miltank lacks the Ability to manipulate damage unless you want an extremely tight list.
  15. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    The thing about Dusknoir is that you only need one turn of being able to Sinister Hand to be able to take the win if you have enough damage on the board. It's unlikely you will, so that's why we play 2 Scrapper/Megaphone and a Dowsing Machine.

    KOing the Garbodor is great, but if they are smart they are going to go with two Garbodor because they realize your deck doesn't work without Abilities and that's their best chance. I don't really want to run two Lysandre in this kind of deck, and Dowsing Machine and Lysandre are both only one-ofs, so it's unlikely to find them every time you need them to pick off a Garbodor.
  16. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    I've been playing some Empire/Miltank recently, and I must say that it really does run a whole lot better than the Greninja variant, at least in the games I've played.
  17. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Wait... Empoleon with or without anything "extra" in addition to Miltank. Considering Empoleon decks have always been a "thing", I assumed straight up Empoleon/Miltank to be more of an "Empoleon" deck than a "Miltank" deck.
  18. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Miltank is almost always your preferred attacker in that deck. He's faster, uses fewer resources, is more easily replaced, and doesn't cost you your draw engine when he's KO'd.

    Empoleon is for when you run out of Miltanks, or need the extra damage it can (but not always) do.
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  19. Professor_N

    Professor_N Well-Known Member

    Empire/Miltank, as in Empoleon/Dusknoir/Miltank. It's like old Empire, just with Miltank as your main attacker. Miltank almost always does as much or more damage than Empoleon does (especially in the early game), and it's a Basic that doesn't have your draw engine attached to it.
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  20. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Got it... while the deck was reasonably successful before, now you've got a disposable Basic attacker instead of having to give up your "expensive" (minimum four cards) Bench-sitter. Am I right in guessing that I also underestimated the usefulness (for Empoleon) of having a decent attacker when neither player has much of a Bench? Miltank just needs you to have a single Stage 2, versus Empoleon needing at least half full Benches to hit for the same amount.