Discussion in 'Deck Help & Development' started by JAM, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. JAM

    JAM Consistency > Techs

    This deck came together after I decided that the Virizion/Genesect deck was clunky and inconsistent and I wanted to try to develop a Plasma deck with Genesect. Since Grass isn't on the same Blend wheel as the attackers in TDK I decided to try using Moltres EX alongside Genesect and Deoxys.

    Moltres has become much more viable with the presence of decks using both Grass and Steel types in this format. It's first attack also has a built in Crushing Hammer effect. It's also the attack you will us most often with Moltres to start to soften up your opponents Pokemon for Genesect later. Here is what the deck looks like right now:

    Pokemon – 12

    4 Deoxys EX
    3 Moltres EX
    2 Genesect EX
    2 Absol PLF
    1 Virizion EX

    Trainers – 36

    4 Professor Juniper
    4 N
    2 Colress
    2 Skyla
    2 Bicycle

    4 Pokemon Catcher
    3 Colress Machine
    3 Hypnotoxic Laser
    3 Switch
    2 Team Plasma Ball
    2 Tool Scrapper
    1 Ultra Ball
    1 Scramble Switch

    2 Virbank City Gym

    1 Float Stone

    Energy – 12

    4 Blend
    4 Prism
    4 Plasma

    This is a consistent deck that takes advantage of some common type weaknesses in Fire, Grass and Psychic. Unlike TDK, all the Pokemon in this deck can take advantage of the 8 colored energy included. As a result, you will find yourself attacking with Deoxys more often than you would in TDK.

    Much like Deoxys, Absol is easier to power up in this deck for the same reasons and helps get off quick powerful attacks when the opponents bench is full.

    Since all the colored energies in the deck also count as grass when attached to a basic Pokemon I included a single copy of Virizion EX as a bench sitter. This decrease the damage output of decks relying on Laser for extra damage.

    Typically Genesect will be the recipient of a Scramble Switch mid-late game and can start picking of weakened Pokemon with Megalo Cannon. The added damage from bench Deoxys brings your damage output to 110-140 while doing 20 to the bench. So, if you started the game hitting things for 30-70 with Moltres' Destructive Flame attack you will be able to start cleaning them up with Megalo Cannon.

    That synergy is similar to what you might have with Raiden Knuckle and Blizzard Burn in TDK. The key difference in this deck is that Moltres tries to disrupt you opponents energy instead of powering up your bench like Thundurus.

    This deck isn't as consistent TDK, but I will say that it can compete against the top archetypes. Let me know what y'all think. Love to hear any suggestions or feedback you might have. I would like to fit an Enhanced Hammer or two, but can't decide if it's worth taking anything out for.
  2. thematteo0

    thematteo0 The quintessentially British gentleman.

    There are a few obvious problems with the deck as far as I can see which I really would like some clarification on. First of all this deck pretty much auto-loses to any Darkrai EX-Sableye DEX decks running a couple of Enhanced Hammer (which will be virtually all variants whether plain or Garbodor DRX based) because of multiple factors:

    1. The deck runs all Special Energies so no Energies can't be discarded

    2.This deck has no Energy recovery such as Thundurus EX which can attack and bring Energies back onto the field that are being discarded whilst still doing damage and taking out Sableye DEX's preventing them from completely shutting the deck down.

    3. The deck has no cards that can attack for one energy, the lowest is two Energy and neither Moltres EX's first attack or Deoxys EX's attack are a big threat to Darkrai EX-Sableye DEX decks and even if they can get an attack off the attacks the Energies are discarded right away.

    These huge numbers of Special Energies mounting up in the discard also helps a lot versus Drifblim DRX, now I know TDK has the same problems with the Drifblim cards, and they might not necessarily see a huge amount of competitive action anyway (although they were part of a Battle Carnival winning deck in Japan) they are still a huge threat to contend with. With these in particular Darkrai EX decks being cards that you will probably face at least once at a tournament, what is the strategy against them?

    This moves me onto the next area that I am confused about is that you claimed that "the Virizion/Genesect deck was clunky and inconsistent", and that you wanted to build a more consistent deck. I am very confused as to why the Virizion EX-Genesect EX is clunky, and how this deck which doesn't use pretty much all of the same Energies, has lots of different components and much thinner lines of Virizion EX and Genesect EX not to mention the fact that it is generally much slower getting out a Genesect EX attacking than in normal variants is any less "clunky and inconsistent" than a normal Virizion EX-Genesect EX deck.

    Running this deck also means that you aren't using the G-Booster Tool card for Genesect EX which is pretty much the sole reason for using it (apart from facing Blastoise BCR-Keldeo EX decks which attack with high Energy Keldeo EX's something which I expect will be virtually non-existent unless Virizion EX-Genesect EX stops seeing play which probably won't be for a while at least), Genesect EX just isn't as good as Kyurem PLF in any way as far as I can see, its attack does less damage, it can't attack on the first turn, it cannot OHKO 180 HP EX's, its an EX Pokemon so the opponent takes an extra Prize for knocking it out and it can't attack cards like Suicune or Metal Pokemon in a Klinklang deck.

    It does have some minor advantages although 20 benched damage isn't helping it hit any magic numbers really. The Ability is of course useful but I still don't see how it merits changing the Energy lines from the far more consistent normal version that has access to cards like Thundurus EX. It can also attack twice in a row which is useful, although with most TDK decks running Keldeo EX or high switching Tools they can attack with Kyurem's virtually continually anyway.
  3. JAM

    JAM Consistency > Techs

    Yeah, this deck isn't an alternative to TDK. As I mentioned in my original post, TDK in more consistent and better in general for all the reasons you have stated. I think you may have miss interpreted my post as me trying to sell this deck as something its not. It does run on all special energies which would be a problem against Sableye plus Enhanced Hammer, but energy switch is rotating so Darkrai will see less play.

    What I was getting at when I said that VirGen was clunky was the fact that you can't attack turn one unless you run Plasma Badge. The idea of Plasma Badge is clunky in and of itself. Most of the time you won't have Virizion, Plasma Badge, Grass and Colress Machine turn one. G-Booster can be Tool Scrappered off. Shadow Triad takes up your supporter for the turn.

    However, I still liked Genesect and decided to build a different deck that included it. With that said, its not a Genesect deck. It doesn't use G-Booster as you mentioned. It doesn't have a way of accelerating energy aside from Colress Machine, but I think if you were to play test it you would find its consistent and very competitive. Obviously, its not going to be a tier 1 archetype though and I wouldn't play this at a tournament myself, but I wouldn't run VirGen either. Just something I'm having fun with on PTCGO.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2013
  4. yoyos

    yoyos delicious hot potatos

    you're right, because so many people try to burn through the engine to use virizion for the setup to genesect, self explanatory. This, from testing, is the reason why it's so hard to setup, so I find just playing genesect with virizion as a bench tech against the early laser really is a solid play, instead of forcing an early game turn 1-2 setup.

    This deck need thundurus, in fact any team plasma deck really needs thundurus, it's synergy is just that good.