Not What You’d Expect

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by JayHornung, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    This is the thread for discussing the following article:

    Not What You’d Expect

    Post your comments and questions below! Any and all honest feedback is much appreciated.
  2. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    I'm curious to your thoughts on the Blastoise list... Super Energy Retrieval seems really awesome. (Especially if for some reason, you need to drop 2 energy so you can pick up those two energy and two more energy.) But 4 skyla and 3 beach? What made you up your beach count to 3? Was 4+2 not enough to get a beach play on turn 1 a majority of the time for you?

    My experience in the States series was disheartening because I had the turn 1 beach most of the time ( and I only had 1 the first weekend! ) but I still couldn't get a rare candy / turtle in my hand to save my life. I'll post my list if you'd like to offer any comments on it. I really want to play Blastoise for battle roads / nationals.
  3. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod.

    [trufax]You lost because you weren't playing singleton attackers.[/trufax]
  4. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Yea go for it Flare...it would be a lot easier if I could see a list to give better thoughts.
  5. Empoleon1107

    Empoleon1107 The one and only Gangsta

    Regigas EX goes great with Chandelure. And maybe Scramble Switch in your Plasma deck?
  6. newtonadam

    newtonadam New Member

    With the rise of thundurus, wouldnt landorus ex get back to tier 1 again? Fighting will become a major element with only one deck that really counters it (keldeo/blasto)
  7. FlareStarfire

    FlareStarfire Front Page Contributor

    4 Squirtle
    4 Blastoise
    3 Keldeo EX
    2 Black Kyurem EX
    1 Mewtwo EX

    4 Professor Juniper
    4 N
    3 Skyla
    2 Colress

    4 Rare Candy
    4 Energy Retrieval
    4 Ultra Ball
    3 Pokemon Catcher
    2 Tropical Beach
    1 Computer Search
    1 Tool Scrapper

    11 Water Energy
    3 Lightning Energy

    That list went 4-4 in California States. My Oregon List was -1 Beach, +1 Skyla, -1 BKEX +1 Mewtwo EX from this and got 5-3. For Nevada States I went
    +1 Skyla - 1 Colress +1 Heavy Ball -1 Blastoise +1 Black Kyurem BCR -1 Mewtwo EX ... failed to produce a blastoise in any fair amount of time. Went 1-3 and started the long drive home. It was really frustrating to finally be playing with the second beach, having it be there early and then the deck just failed to turtle.

    Skyla... either the card hasn't grown on me or maybe I'm playing it wrong but there were games I was using it just to thin my deck out and see what was left by the time end game came around. Or other times I'd have to decide, do I want to skyla for one thing, or juniper for a fresh hand, or N for a fresh hand?

    For what it's worth, as soon as I saw ghetsis I really wanted to try to work one of those in like you did for your list. Not only is it decidedly anti-junk hunt but if you open with it, I think the biggest thing it can give you is information as to what's in their hand. Or if it's midgame and they're struggling a bit, it would give you a chance to see exactly what outs they were waiting on, or if that prize card they just drew made their hand playable. Not something I'd want to play 3-4 of but as a tech card? Absolutely.

    I don't profess to be an amazing player, so any advice would be most welcomed. The last time I played seriously was in 2011, when I hit top 64 in nationals and ground in to Worlds with Magneboar. This deck feels really similar, so that's why I am trying to get it to iron out. Thanks again.
  8. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Heh, it's interesting to hear the thought process behind your deck choice, because I think every one of us Klinklang players this past weekend went through the same mindset before the event.

    Interesting to see your first insights into PLF. This is the format that matters most, so it'll be interesting to see how people diversify their approach to it. I would say that I haven't found Snorlax to be worthwhile without Scramble Switch though. You can't really spend time mid-game to Raiden Knuckle to try and set it up. Snorlax is a great non-EX attacker, but that 5-energy cost is a heavy burden.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  9. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod.

    Is eeveelutions really a stronger deck than some of the other stuff coming out of the set like dragonite/garbodor or Kingdra or Steelix (an attacker that negates its own fire weakness)/Klinklang? Or is it included because of the popularity factor?
  10. shirokuma

    shirokuma Member

    Hi Jay, I may be missing something major here, but why isn't plasma kyurem included in your plasma build? Wouldn't it also make a rise in landorus to counter thundurus unlikely to happen?
  11. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    shirokuma I didn't even notice that, haha. Yeah, Kyurem is kind of amazing. Honestly, I would consider it my main attacker.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  12. poxstep

    poxstep Underground Member

    Yeah also wondering the same thing, kyurem pls is so huge right now in Japan. It also helps a lot against blastoise..
  13. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Blastoise, Landorus, anything really. That 30 snipe while hitting the active for 40-50 is very important in any game.
  14. Starmetroid

    Starmetroid Member

    In your Plasma list you had 1 Blend WLFM but the only non-Colorless attacks in your deck were from Thundurus and Deoxys. A single Lightning would be a better inclusion for its immunity to Enhanced Hammer and Righteous Edge.

    I also like that next format will be the first time where Enhanced Hammer actually feels like a worse Lost Remover instead of the same card.

    Also in your Darkrai list you didn't have any Virbank City Gym, was this a mistake or intentional?
  15. Blueye95

    Blueye95 TCG is all i need

    As many other have said, without Kyurem PLF, Landorus will run over the Plasma deck. That is the main reason why it is so popular in japan at the moment. I think ghetsis is best suited as a 1 off, but toehr than that, i do really like the Darkrai List and currently i have roughly the same list. +1!
  16. shirokuma

    shirokuma Member

    I agree, being able to ohko any pokemon with a non fragile non ex (with deoxys and virbank combo) is a godsend. The first attack is also pretty good considering in can be powered in a turn.

    Also, where's the love for float stone?
  17. Starmetroid

    Starmetroid Member

    The problem with Float Stone is that it doesn't help when you're asleep, paralyzed, or retreating is blocked. Hypnotoxic Laser is still going to be used in a lot of decks and you don't want to stay asleep only to realize there're only 1-2 Switch outs in deck.

    It does have its merits though. It goes well with Keldeo EX, gives you a free retreater whenever a Pokemon goes down and prevents the opponent from Catcher stalling the same target repeatedly. I'd start including it after you have enough Switch outs.
  18. shirokuma

    shirokuma Member

    Yeah, I realised its disadvantages when it comes to status effects too. I was thinking more about its use in blastoise keldeo, I mean how often do you find yourself with a fully charged black kyurem but lack the energy to retreat and take the last two prizes? (or maybe its just me)
  19. Delta

    Delta New Member

    In the proxy testing I've been doing, I've found Ghetsis to be a terrible supporter :/. Even first turn, you might net two or three, and slightly disrupt your opponent. But as it doesn't remove the opponent's supporters, they're none too miffed, and surely you can pull more than hope for a first turn lucky Ghetsis. Even as a one of, I consider it disappointing.
  20. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Empoleon: Regigigas always seems pretty meh and fighting weakness is bad, but an easy inclusion since the deck already runs DCE. Scramble Switch is easily a good play to, I just went with the more standard Computer Search in my first list.

    Delta: I basically agree, I'm testing it in Darkrai though since I feel the deck needs less once its set up and struggles against decks like Blastoise in the later game. So its great to grab right after a Tropical Beach or a turn after they N.

    Shirokuma/Starmtroid: Float Stone will most likely be a 1 of in quite a few decks. Switch is ultimately going to be more well rounded, but the opition to Skyla for it when you just want to retreat makes it worth playing. Keldeo EX and Garbardor can also easily abuse it.

    Starmtroid: No the Dark Claws are supposed to be Virbank, I can't believe I missed that. The lists are getting tighter and tigheter

    New: Yep I think Landours could easily a good amount of play and perhaps even more than it sees now, I even mentioned it in the article.

    Flare: IMO the biggest thing that slowed you down was only playing 3 Skyla and 4 Ultra Ball. I like 4 Skyla and than 1 Level and 1 Heavy Ball, it makes T2 Stoise a lot easier.

    Cabd: I through it under Tier 2 decks, my point of the section was to talk about decks that have been getting some hype, but I really don't think are that good or worth testing.

    Shirokuma: I haven't tested it yet, on paper it doesn't look like that good of Landorus EX counter since you they'll always have a turn to answer it (perhaps I'm wrong, I haven't tested it) my anti Landorus was to either go Snorlax, or Posion than Lugia on the following turn.