Old Decks, New Techs – The Maturing Metagame

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by Crawdaunt, Feb 28, 2013.

  1. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    TechnoLegend and ottawacollector like this.
  2. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    . . . and that's a +1 from me.
    Crawdaunt likes this.
  3. TechnoLegend

    TechnoLegend Active Member

    +1!

    Great lists, its good to see a different approach to commonly played decks.

    Why no Colress Machine in Articuno/Garbodor?? but i do love the rocky helmets, my favorite tool for a garbodor deck!
  4. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Thanks. That was my intent at least. With the new format, there's a lot of variability in what people are testing/playing. The only interesting one is Recycle in the Scramble Switch lists. I mean... take the line "I would ask it to go steady with me" with a grain of salt. It's definitely good, but I generally shy away from flip cards. But Recycle + Scramble Switch is kind of like Super Scoop Up in Blastoise Keldeo. I've designed my Blastoise lists without SSU for a while now, but I can't ignore Andrew's SSU success. My way isn't the only way, so I tried to work that in :)

    And upon reflection, yes I'd definitely tech one Colress Machine over the Escape Rope. For some reason when I wrote up that list and ran it, I was forgetting Scramble as a Switch card... The tech Machine would be a great search target for Skyla to set up an Articuno on T3 or T4, or just mid-game. It'd be tough to find room for much more, but you could if you wanted.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  5. TechnoLegend

    TechnoLegend Active Member

    Awesome, i know you talked about it, but which Darkrai deck do you think has the best chance at winnig, i really cant decide. I love having Mewtwo and Bouffalant in the deck for a couuple of matchups, and its nice to have other attackers, but if you can start attaing turn 1-2 with Darkrai ex, for 140+30 damage what else could you possibly need? I have been testing out the straight darkrai version the most, with great success, but i guess i would just like another view.
  6. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Nice article! I really enjoyed all the unique lists and ideas. I'd also like to ask you, do you feel that 10 basics is enough for Rayeels? I've been playing around with the deck recently but I've been getting a lot of lone tynamo starts when I run less than 12 basics, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject.
  7. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Reshiphlosion

    I built a ZekEels before anyone in my area, and have kept an Eels deck built and playtested against it/played it at league for as long as it's been out. And yet, I have never played Eels in a tournament for one reason. I don't want to be donked. Every format there seems to be a way for a Pokemon to donk Tynamo starts (in HS it was Tyrogue, in BW-DRX it was Stunfisk/Mewtwo/Tornadus EX, now we've got Landorus to boot).

    And yet in every format, Eels continues to win. By my calcs of various Eel lists over the past few formats, Eels should lose like... 1 in 17-20 games by donk whether it would normally win or lose. And Landorus was even worse than that.

    And yet Eels continues to win.

    I can no longer deny the evidence before me. I just shouldn't be scared of donks. They'll happen if they do, but more often than not they don't. I can do this much and that much to prevent them, but at the end of the day the thing that affects the deck's success the most is not donks, but the deck's proficiency itself. If I decrease my chance of being donked by 2-5% or something by including a couple more basics, I might lose just as many, if not more, games due to lacking cards I would otherwise have.

    /end sermon of realization that I came to after watching my friends in the Oregon T4, composed of 3 RayEels and a Landorus, where two RayEels went on to finals.

    tl;dr - I wouldn't worry about it too much. ;)
  8. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Ah okay I'll try dropping down to 10-11 basics then, thanks a bunch! :)
  9. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes

    Thoroughly enjoyed the read Crawdaunt as always.

    I spent some 36 or so hours play testing this past weekend trying to figure out the best way to approach the RayEels match up with Keldeo and I fear that there's no real easy tech or secret to the match up. I tried running Black Kyurem BCR, but just didn't find success.

    Do you have any thoughts? It feels like it just comes down to flat out setting up quicker and beating them. The thing that seems to swing it for them I feel is their access to LittleQuaza vs. my Black Kyurem EX's.

    I am also running a tech Manaphy to assist in the Garbodor match up to assist in accelerating energy when I would normally not be able to. Any thoughts there?

    I intend on cutting Black Kyurem BCR and if I were to cut Manaphy I'd have two spots spare. So I am thinking adding either of 4th Blastoise/Super Rod/Scrapper/More Energy.

    I've found a few matches I've lost purely to not having energy left in the deck. So I am leaning towards having Super Rod on top of my 4 retrievals.

    Anyway, thanks again for the article.
  10. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Vysekun

    Thanks :)

    If you could find an easy tech to beat Eels, it wouldn't have been tier 1 the past 5 formats. :p No... as much as I dislike it, I feel like the thing that determines the Eels vs. Blastoise matchup between two players of perfectly equal skill is who drew better... I've had limited success with Lil' B.Kyurem myself. I was trying it as a tech to help against Klinklang and RayEels. Doesn't do much for either, since if your deck can set up a Lil' B.Kyurem, it could probably have set up a Keldeo or Black Kyurem EX to do the same job. I'm not disregarding it yet.

    How many energy are you running? I've been thinking about running a Super Rod myself, but haven't seen anything I'd be willing to cut for it. I also wouldn't say I'm running out of Energy against anything other than PlasmaKlang with a full 16. But I'm also gonna drop one for a tech of some sort. I really like 4th Blastoise, definitely recommend that. Scrapper for Garbodor... Probably some fire attacker for Klinklang (and a fire energy). Genuinely not sure on Moltres or Victini. Moltres wouldn't get return KO'd by a Mewtwo DCE. And more importantly, it wouldn't require me to fill my bench (that can be tough sometimes). I'm also looking at dropping the 4th Blastoise and adding a Heavy Ball... Essentially... I'm still testing a lot of techs/minor decisions in the deck. My only shot at SPT's comes in Week 3, so if I do end up playing Blastoise, I'll need to metagame appropriately. Could be I don't play the deck at all! It's just what I'm most comfortable with atm.

    p.s. I like the Manaphy tech. That's pretty unique :) I also like the irony that you're using Manaphy (whose Ability is the best part) to counter Garbodor.
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  11. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes

    I am sitting on (I think) 13 energy atm. 11/2 split between water and lightning. Very greedy. I didnt have issues with just 13 before we had Black Kyurem EX, but I think it's different for me now because along with 2 B. Kyurem EX's, I run 1 Cilan which gets energy out of my deck quicker than I'm used to.

    Idk how much we need techs for Klinklang. I tried baby Keldeo for a time and never found it useful vs. Sigilyph and while Klinklang is a bit different, I feel like many say, it is probably better to just try and KO whatever their energy is attached to. As you've said, it's also a match up I have found myself running out of energy in. So I am inclined towards Super Rod, of all things, to be what swings that match up, giving you water/another Blastoise if necessary.

    Haha yeah. I'm still not 100% sure on it, but I can say with some honesty that I haven't had a bad experience with it yet. Getting two heads on seafaring is pretty big.

    I also wonder if I can sneak Cryogonal NVI 33 in =P

    Edit: Also, have you tested just 2 Keldeo EX? Personally I dislike having less than 3.
  12. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Yeah, I dropped a Keldeo to fit the Black Kyurem in my testing. If you don't need to focus on Keldeo, then you're ok with only 2. I'd like to keep 3 if I can though.

    Also... the Klinklang matchup. I don't know your experience with it. But if they have both PlasmaKlang and BWKlang simultaneously with a decent # of Max Potion, no amount of energy will save you... nor can you really try to trade 2HKO's :| It's really about teching to win.
  13. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes

    Ok, I'll keep it in mind. I'm not expecting Klinklang to be played widely, but, I guess I'll have to do some scouting the day before regionals for me this weekend.