On Failure and Losing: An Article About Not Getting 1st Place at Pokemon Tournaments

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by swanton1717, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. swanton1717

    swanton1717 http://www.sixprizes.com/forums/account/avatar

  2. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    I learned a lot from this article and thought it was excellent.

    Really hope it doesn't get overlooked just because it doesn't shove a bunch of decklists down your throat.

    Kudos for taking a 'risk' and coming up with something great.
    tokyovampire likes this.
  3. Kettler

    Kettler Active Member

  4. jenbamo

    jenbamo New Member

    Thanks for that article. I know a few people (ahem, adults) who get so upset when they lose that they punch walls or sulk in the corner. They should really read this one. Its also good for the Juniors and Seniors who are just getting into the game. I run a League that is comprised of mainly kids under 11 and instead of open play all the time, I run each week with lessons or learning tournaments. I'll be including this in an upcoming lesson week.

    There's one thing I'd like to add. I'm a Poke parent and I find that often super competitive players (the ones that consistently are close to or get an invite to Worlds) look down on parents that play for the reasons that you mention. Thanks for pointing out that without casual players and competitive parents, there would be no one to play against. IMO, if you can't beat us parents/competitive players, maybe you don't deserve that invite you want so badly. Don't get me wrong, I'm out there to win too, but mainly I'm there to meet new players, have fun and learn from the best so I can pass my knowledge on to my Junior son so he can have a shot at winning. Building up the player base is so important if we ever hope to see Pokemon increase its spending on the game.
  5. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    Have to say I also really enjoyed this article. Not sure how I compare to the average underground subscriber, but I feel that articles like this one, that explore all sorts of topics about the game and explore them deeply are a lot more valuable to my development as a player than the articles that are just shoving a bunch of decklists in my face.
    jenbamo likes this.
  6. darkwings

    darkwings Never give the monkey a gun

    i like this article a lot. it's one of those articles that has some relevance now and in 20 years. this is a very interesting read and i will definitively read it multiple times.
  7. Parenting101

    Parenting101 Active Member

    Great article! There are a lot of players that do not take losing very well, including yelling and cursing, which does not leave a good impression on new comers and juniors.

    Something I have noticed and don't like to see is players "dropping" once they know they can't win a tournament. I understand that continuing to play "may" hurt their ranking and pride, but dropping also hurts anybody they played against's "resistance" as well which isn't very fair to them.

    I also believe that those players that drop have forgotten to just "have fun" and continue playing to enjoy the game and continue to learn. I am fairly new to the game and maybe out to lunch on my opinion about dropping, but this is what I have observed. Better players dropping also encourages younger/newer players to also drop when they did not perform well, losing out on some great learning experiences.

    Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks again for the article.
    webjefita and pokejav like this.
  8. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    Someone more experienced with the resistance math could probably explain it better, but I'm pretty sure people dropping hurting your resistance is one of the biggest myths involved with pokemon tournaments. I'm pretty sure if someone drops after two games, they factor into your resistance just weighted as if they played 2 games out of say 7 rounds, and not as if they played 7 rounds.

    In general, I would agree dropping is bad for most events, it's like, why not just keep playing. But at something like Nationals when after your third loss, the sde events becoming a better use of your time, I don't really see the big deal.
  9. darkwings

    darkwings Never give the monkey a gun

    honestly, i don't see why people drop. you entered the tournament, so why not finish? i just don't understand why. may just be my niavete.
  10. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Yeah, I had this explained to me.

    If an opponent who is having a bad day drops, it's often in your favour. If they continued to play and kept losing, things would only get worse.

    I very rarely drop tournaments (like . . . 3 times in 5 years of playing), but I don't have a problem with people who do. Sometimes it's just too frustrating once you know your deck isn't working. Sometimes you get tired/stressed and are better off just hanging around with your mates. There isn't always something to be learned by carrying on after it ceases to be enjoyable.
  11. Parenting101

    Parenting101 Active Member

    Well if dropping from a tournament doesn't affect any players that have won or lost against the dropping player, then I guess I can't get upset over it. I just think that most of the players playing in the tournament have practiced for a long time before the tournament and are there because they enjoy the game (for various reasons such as the social aspect). To not finish the tournament seems like they just wasted all of that time. But, if there are fun "side events" like at Nationals, then I totally understand.

    Thanks for clarifying.
  12. swanton1717

    swanton1717 http://www.sixprizes.com/forums/account/avatar

    I appreciate all the feedback! I am so very glad that the article has been well received. The comment on the the timelessness of the article was especially gratifying :)

    In regards to dropping, I think it is generally an okay thing to do. Like I mentioned, there can be many reasons to attend tournaments aside from actually playing in them- visiting with friends, play testing a new deck idea, trading etc. If you lose interest in the tournament (which can happen if you are doing poorly), you can now focus more on your other reasons for tournament attendance.

    Thanks everyone!
  13. killerpotatoe

    killerpotatoe killerpotatoe

    this was a touching article for me since I came 2nd. it stings. but for the most part, the prizes are the same, and if I didn't lose to a rude person(not very atractive either, see ian http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/news_op_nats12_day3_tcg-2012-07-01/), I wouldn't have really cared.

    I won game 1, lost 2, then needed a fighting and catcher off a catcher to kill his darkrai t2, got the fighting. he hit double heads on hammer to kill both fightings then night speared me. next card was a catcher, not to mention I got trash. I felt terrible. I ran 11 supporters and 3 random reciver, yet managed to draw trash game 2 and 3, also he flipped like 12 for 15 on crushing hammer/SSU.

    I liked the article but didn't read the entire thing. It was good and yes I liked it, but aritcles like this tend to drag on a bit and most of it I already knew and it was either a good reminder or force to make me think some stuff I didn't want to.
  14. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Unless this is some kind of obscure in-joke, I'm not a fan of the way you describe someone as 'rude', and then go and make snide remarks about their appearance.

    Bit hypocritical imo. You have more to learn from that article than you think.
  15. killerpotatoe

    killerpotatoe killerpotatoe

    gee, sorry you took that the wrong way(I didn't mean to be rude or mean, just when I'm depressed, I point out things that wouldn't matter otherwise). losing to a polite person can be enjoyable. but he didn't even shake my hand.
  16. darkwings

    darkwings Never give the monkey a gun

    did you offer your hand for him to shake?
  17. killerpotatoe

    killerpotatoe killerpotatoe

    yes. when he saw the victory he started smiling and stood up. not even gg
  18. tokyovampire

    tokyovampire Starpower!

    I really liked your article and found it extremely informative and timeless as Darkwing has said. I am still working on my Nats report and I finished 5-4. I will be touching on some of the things mentioned in your article quite a bit. My goal for the tournament was Top 64. The logic being that I wanted to make Top Cut and winning one game in Top Cut would really show that I deserved to make it that far. :) That being said I am not at all depressed as I learned a lot about myself as a player and my limitations. Since it is only my first year in the game and I have only been playing competitive decks post-States, I can't be too upset. My friend finished 7th with the deck and I took it the same way as you described lol. I asked him how he approached various matchups (especially the ones I was losing to) and from his descriptions of forcing his opponents to burn resources like Junk Arm as well as skillfully using Landorus in ways I hadn't thought about was simply a matter of him being a better player than me. With more experience in the game, I will be able to do better and better and improve my skills for this season. Maybe this year I will have what it takes to make the Top 64. :D Keep up the great work and the great articles, and not every article has to be decklists to the face lol.
    swanton1717 likes this.
  19. pokejav

    pokejav New Member

    I greatly enjoyed this "philosophical" aspect of the game. Our attititude can make a huge impact on our game, and knowing "how to lose" is critical. As a pokedad myself, I also enjoyed the response from the parent who runs a league saying that competitive players need to learn to appreciate older players as well. I'm grateful to my son for bringing me into the game... know I'm getting to win against 20' somethings!
    swanton1717 and Parenting101 like this.
  20. arcanyx

    arcanyx The #1 Procrastinator

    I gave this article a +1, not because I thoroughly enjoyed it or it was a topic which I found relevance in, but because I very heartily appreciate the thought you put into it. I personally do not have a losing problem, though maybe that might be due to the fact I'm only in my first competitive season, but I understood the manner in which you sought to present this issue. Very philosophical, yet practical to real life issues at the same time.

    Honestly speaking, I thought the article lacked indefinite relevance, to me personally, but it had a fresh feel to it and benefited many if not all of us readers. Keep it up.

    PS: A small suggestion: it could be a bit more related to the game, if the theoretical approaches were described with an in-game-related situation, perhaps. Something along the lines of failing to see crucial plays which cost an entire game, or failure to notice unsuccessful card choices in deck building. Just my two cents.