Discussion in 'Pokemon TCG News & Gossip' started by willcompere, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    As we've been discussing, having the capacity to get around something isn't the same as being prepared for it. I often annoy people by reminding them that tech was coined for something pretty specific, and this is kind of why the original definition was useful.

    A lot of decks don't need a "tech" against this... because it won't do them any good. A single card "trick", run because it wins you more games than it costs you, is tech. It can be a counter, but only if what it is countering can be dealt with through a single card reasonably well. Throwing up your Blastoise to take down Pyroar is pretty risky; if your opponent is running Pyroar as a TecH (yes, the definition relaxed to include things like a 1-1 Stage 1, as that is the minimum card count to run it) you're good. A 2-2 or better line backed by the rest of a deck? Blastoise might not be enough.

    Plus... is there any evidence that Mega Pokémon-EX are going to be good enough to warrant competitive play? So far the best looks to be Kangaskhan and Blastoise; the former is flippy and the latter is outclassed by Keldeo EX and Black Kyurem EX.
  2. Salamencetrainer34

    Salamencetrainer34 An ogre-achiever

    I can see charizard mega Y getting some play in the bottom tables Either way, megas would see play if they had a much better way to come out and see play.

    Pyroar itself deserves to be teched against, Latias doesnt fit the bill, I think rayboar could play baby ray. Darkrai may have garbador, but what about those who dont use garbador? What do they got? Zoroark, they got zoroark. Ifyou attend nats, I'd highly advise to expect lots of pyroar.
  3. OshaWaterBottle

    OshaWaterBottle Active Member

    Yeah bottom tables, 5 and under.
  4. willcompere

    willcompere New Member

    well i dont play latias XD
  5. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Earlier I brought up Latias EX to play with Pyroar, not against it, though I figured it probably wouldn't be good enough. With access to Bright Down, Safeguard, Intimidating Mane, and Silver Mirror... you can attempt to wall against anything that is:
    1. A Pokémon-EX
    2. A Basic Pokémon
    3. A Team Plasma Pokémon
    4. Has an Ability
    Of course the effectiveness of that is quite questionable, as I admitted; the more pieces the less you can streamline your set-up, and many counters end up being universal; if it ignores damage reducing effects on the Defending Pokémon, none of the above would matter.

    I expect every M Pokémon-EX to see some attempted competitive play; it tells you exactly how inconsistent card design/quality has been the last few years that you no longer see just about everything at a sufficiently large enough tournament. There have always been cards no one played, but it went from being a few per set to most of a set. What I do not expect competitively successful decks that utilize such cards to appear often enough to warrant the attention. At least I realized before I posted more questions that you were citing Charizard Y just because people think its "kewl".
  6. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    In an attempt to be the most ridiculous, yet intriguingly head-cocking comment of the day:

    Would a 1-1 line of Abomasnow PLB be a worthwhile inclusion in Virizion/Genesect to combat Pyroar swarms? (Assuming you play Muscle Band already) (Also assuming that Pyroar becomes super abundant)
  7. Salamencetrainer34

    Salamencetrainer34 An ogre-achiever

    If it was really hyped (As is now), and I'd except 50% of matchs to be pyroar, I'd play a 2-2 line
  8. PokemonGeek

    PokemonGeek Derp, Derp, Derpity Derp

    @jonboy532 No Fiery Torch/Blacksmith?
  9. JR_nathan

    JR_nathan Mr.3 Rings Himself

    You have better options. Clogging your deck with an evolution line that would otherwise serve as Ultra Ball fodder in any other matchup isn't one.
  10. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    I was only half serious. He just seemed like an interesting play if the meta becomes Fire heavy. Muscle Band + 3 Grass to OHKO Charizard? Not many things can boast that, outside of G-Booster. Virizion prevents the confusion to boot. Meh.
  11. OshaWaterBottle

    OshaWaterBottle Active Member

    I am about to say the most mind boggling idea ever if Charizard is popular in your meta, don't play Virgin. Simple as that.
  12. bookwyrm

    bookwyrm New Member

    Assuming that Pyroar becomes popular, what are some ways Plasma-based decks could tech against it? Are any 1st or 2nd-Stage Plasma Pokémon worth playing, and does a standard Plasma deck have room to put in a 2-2 line? I was considering the Beartic from Plasma Storm, but its retreat cost is pretty high, and requiring 2 Water Energy for Glacier Drop might be annoying to set up.
  13. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Plasma decks are easily the most screwed vs Pyroar. If Pyroar gets popular, it's probably best to move on to a different deck.

    Apart from the Beartic, there's Glaceon PLF. You could try non-Plasma stuff like Toxicroak EX/Virbank.
  14. thflame

    thflame Member

    My wife plays Plasma.
    She won't play against my Pyroar/Charizard Deck anymore...
  15. PP101

    PP101 The Swarm for 3 seconds then accidentally left

    I'll copy what I said on the BBS thread:
    While Pyroar may be overhyped, it's something that every deck needs an answer to, or else they pretty much have an autoloss to anything running it.
  16. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Yeah... but like any "autoloss", it only matters if you encounter it. So we come full circle; how likely are you going to encounter it? Is altering your deck to do better against Pyroar worth doing worse against pretty much everything else?

    I go back to the Regional won by Quad Sigilyph. The article that player wrote even admitted that he was fortunate that he faced opponents that hadn't prepared or that had, but had some bad luck (like one or all of their Safeguard counters being Prized). The guy still had to play well to get to where he was... but some of his unprepared opponents could have received "luck of the pairings" (instead of him) and potentially won the event should his deck have encountered something not especially vulnerable to Safeguard or even strong against Quad Sigilyph.

    TL;DR: I still believe preparing for it is a metagame call, and it is quite plausible that (especially as the initial hype dies down) you can safely take your chances "ignoring" it.
  17. jonboy532

    jonboy532 Is betting on a TDK deck with Muscle Band

    But just in case you should probably include some tech if you are going to a major regionals.

    What does that mean?[DOUBLEPOST=1399323253][/DOUBLEPOST]
    I couldn't think of what to take out for those, even though they are good.
    The problem with the idea I had is that the only real fire pokemon in it is Pyroar/Littleo.

    The list I posted is based around locking out s2's with Trevenant XY and then bringing Pyroar in to roll over the rest. Mewtwo EX would preferably serve as a backup.
  18. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    The entire point of the post was that you need to correctly anticipate the metagame (what decks are being played) for the event. You don't add something "just in case" because you have space constraints for how many cards you may run, as well as for how smoothly your deck operates. If your counter for Pyroar ends up costing you more games than it wins you, you shouldn't have run it.

    If Pyroar ends up being huge, you should work in the necessary counter(s). If it ends up being largely ignored or poorly played, you probably don't have to worry about it; it is no worse than any other potential "bad luck" pairing.

    When you see "TL;DR:" at the end of a post like that, it stands for "Too long; didn't read". In this case, it was being used as a summary for those (whether they have a good reason or not) that needed to just skim the post. Normally I make longer posts, so it is a bit more useful.
  19. jbandler

    jbandler New Member

    I have played against a Pyroar Deck and managed ok merely by using Tailow/Swellow and forcing him back to the bench and beating everyone else who wasn't ready to fight with Darkrai. Additionally, you only need to tech in one or two water type like Abomasnow or Starmie for one energy + a band or laser who more than easily OHKO Pyroar. I posted "Dark Variant" in deck help for those willing to share suggestion on my newbie built deck. :)
  20. Ein

    Ein The Mega Man Master

    Starmie doesn't hit for weakness. To my knowledge there are zero Stage 1 water types that can OHKO Pyroar without a water energy as well. It's hard to just throw in a 2-2 Stage 1 line into a basics deck and call it good against Pyroar, especially if your Stage 1 doesn't have the best synergy with your deck or is useless in most matchups. If Pyroar needs to be countered you can't settle for anything less then a one-shot.