Reflecting on States & Making the Most of Your 60 Cards

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by Crawdaunt, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

  2. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Another great article! I agree with you that Big Basics is pretty much the "safest" deck out there with no extremely bad match ups and such. Although in Darkrai I just don't like switch, if garbodor is a problem then I could just use that space for a tool scrapper which also has some use in the mirror or against landorus (getting rid of eviolite/dark claw) and with dark cloak it just seem a little redundant to me, but that's just my somewhat biased opinion :p
  3. RobGAJP

    RobGAJP New Member

    Great article Mark, thanks for sharing your thoughts . I personally played BB's in Florida States last weekend, which took me to Top 4 , just loosing to a PlasmaKlang deck which was by far my worst matchup. ( The PlasmaKlang guy eventually won the tournament, going all his top cut matches vs BB's decks .. it was his day indeed .. ) I used also scramble switch, and I fully agree with your veredict, I can't start to tell you how many times it was an invaluable and surprising asset in pretty much all my matches. So if I where to keep my deck choice for regionals , what's your opinion on what to add to the deck to give it a fighting chance vs Klang , whithout messing up too much with consistency ? .. I'm for the moment thinking on upping the non-EX count to 3 viable / different ones and test that way ... Victini is no good, messes up energy types and consistency too much ... appreciate your insights.
  4. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Reshiphlosion, Tool Scrapper sort of seems redundant to me actually! Haha. When your deck is already focused on Dark Claw and Lasers, Scrapper rarely creates KO's in other matchups (Eviolite Bouff is a good one though). So its primary use is against Garbodor. I don't disagree, but my dichotomy was more of a Switch vs. Keldeo thing. After the first week, there were many murmurs of Switch > Keldeo, which I found myself agreeing with. Scrapper is definitely a fair choice. But I do like how Switch gives me an extra out to status.

    RobGAJP, Tornadus EPO is something I'm deliberating on. It doesn't get OHKO'd by their deck, and it only loses 2 Energy when it dies. It sets up Bouffalant KO's as well, and works well in conjunction with Terrakion against other decks. But I'd otherwise have no room for Tornadus or Terrak anymore. The annoying flaw is Righteous Edge, so I'm still very much on the fence. Charging up a Tornadus EPO with 3 Basic Energies isn't the easiest task. Aspertia City Gym for Bouffalant is also a great trick, and lets you control when Virbank is "on" or "off."

    I do think that Big Basics needs to find answers to Klinklang for Regionals. Did somebody say "Garbodor!?"
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  5. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    +1
  6. RobGAJP

    RobGAJP New Member

    Thank you Mark. We are actually testing our build with Tornadus EPO , Bouffalant and Terrakion together as we speak. I already run Aspertia so in paper the tools are there, the challenge will be to get them when they are needed through the matchup .. so testing will tell. Going the Garbodor route makes the deck a different one, as you need to devote at least 4 spaces to the line, plus a minimum of 1 level ball , plus 4-5 tools if you don't run any .. too many things from the original build would need to go out, thus making it a different deck from true, fast, hard-core BB's . But's it's definitely an option, clunkier / slower , but indeed much more effective vs. Klang if you are to face it. Also will give you a better matchup vs Blastoise .. so coin is in the air . Other thoughts and opinions on alternatives most welcome as well ..
  7. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    RobGAJP, Hmm... I guess what I can say is this. The cardpool isn't so massive that there are many secret gems just waiting to be discovered. As fring concepts, Revenge Bouffalant can come in for a revenge 90 (still a 2HKO) for only DCE. Still combos for 2HKO's, but is easier to charge up than Gold Breaker (though Gold Breaker is obviously a better attack). Excadrill DEX might make a new argument for inclusion, and re-using Scramble Switch sounds awesome.

    But really, the best answer BB can come up with is to bring plenty of non-EX attackers, and give 'em hell. It's like trying to counter The Truth before Mewtwo EX was out.
  8. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    To each his own I guess, I like scrapper but I can also see why switch would be used instead. On another note how much does victini improve the plasmaklang matchup? Is it about 50/50? Do you ever find yourself with not enough Pokemon to bench? Have you ever wanted super rod? And finally does it help against garbodor or eels at all? (yeah it's pretty obvious that I'm thinking about darkrai for regs :p )
  9. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    With Victini, I know I have answers and can try and formulate a trap/win condition. I'd say it's about 45/55 for Darkrai in my testing. You do have situations where you want to bench more Pokemon but can't. But I play the Victini very conservatively, and only bring it out when it is most effective. It's a compliment to Catcher+Laser. I do want Super Rod, and can easily fit it in for the Switch. Often doesn't help in other machups :| But it also doesn't hinder other matchups. I feel like I'm playing just straight Darkrai lasers the majority of the time. Whereas Hammers get in the way of my overall decklist, and all for the chance at flips. And even with Hammers, as an average, at best I'd say they only make it 40/60. Obviously still good in other matchups, but so are the cards I took out to find room for hammers! :p
  10. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Yeah right now I really want to take darkrai/Lasers and although hammers are useful, I have to drop cards like a 3rd dark claw and a 4th catcher to accommodate it so I was thinking victini as well. Thanks! :D
  11. jbcheshire

    jbcheshire Member

    I enjoy reading your articles, Mark! Keep up the good work!!
  12. bocox06

    bocox06 New Member

    Great article Mark, So in Blastoise another card choice... I've been running and practicing with scramble switch since I've made my Keldeo/Blastoise deck. It seems to be a great way to scramble switch and max potion the old attacker, I've been debating over that and comp search. I haven't tested with it, but I did make T16 in SC with scramble switch even though it never came out...I actually use all the card choice 1 S rod 1 cilan and 4 retrieval.... I find that if my opponent N's me after a Black ballista I'm going to need that three energy and not rely on a retreival to get it back. I find it very helpful late in game and useless early in game because I dont need energy opening I need the squirtle ad rare candy. Well just let me know what you think
  13. enjoifriend

    enjoifriend Andrew Mahone

    Very interesting article approach Mark and an enjoyable read!

    I'm interested in your fondness for dowsing machine. I tried playing it in my blastoise deck as a last minute inclusion with a single tool scrapper in my list for Indiana Regionals. (I had been playing and testing with comp search/2 tool scrapper previously). It was my way of "teching for garbodor while trying to leave myself other options" kind of deal. I hated my dowsing machine almost every match. haha. I would start dowsing machine without a supporter, draw into it on the first turn and have to juniper it away... it literally never worked out right. I ended up going 6-2 whiffing cut at 17th place and I can say I will be very hesitant to play that card again in any deck. (Did I mention that playing dowsing machine for an ultraball is #worstfeel). The one garbodor I played I "6th" prized my only tool scrapper anyways and thus dowsing machine was innefective at doing its job. At the end of the day I felt like dowsing machine was just too situational without a powerful enough benefit to be worth the play. The same goes for scramble switch in a lot of ways. Its just very situational and often gets discarded without play. However, scramble switch's effect is so game breaking that it can be worth basing your match around timing it right. I just feel that dowsing machine is almost never powerful to be worth it.

    And with blastoise, I also have been playing 1 cilan 4 rets and 1 SR.
    Cilan and SR I am back and forth on, but I do agree with you that 4 rets are staple, especially with BKex.
    In my testing Cilan has mostly proven to be worth its weight at most stages of the game. Your main argument against Cilan was that most supporters would net you 3 energy anyways, which may be true, however, Cilan guaruntees it - and I find that guaruntee keeping me with him. Being able to turn a 3 energy keldeo to a 6 energy keldeo or nearly entirely power up a bkex is very powerfull. But I have also found myself sitting on it T-1 with a couple ultraballs and another supporter, and here I can just cilan for some energy to ultraball away and grab squirtles, rather than ultraballing my ultraballs and then say, junipering, you know? I'm still on the fence with him, been thinking of swapping it for an energy search so that I can have that instant gratification with my energy searching. But just thought I'd share my thoughts.


    Sorry for the rant! Very much appreciated your article again dude. A pleasure to read.
  14. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    bocox06, My Blastoise is BK EX-focused, and I don't think I'd find any reason to use Scramble over Comp Search. I suppose the way I've phrased things suggest I'm not for Cilan at all. That's not the case! The discussion was more in regards to if you're thinking about cutting one for the other, as they're similar-purpose cards. I would choose the 4th Retrieval over the one Cilan any day, but if you want to focus your deck on the Energy, then running all of them sounds solid to me. My Blastoise list really hasn't changed much since my last UG article, only taking out 1 Water and the 4th Blastoise to fit in 2 Scrapper, so that's my take on Blastoise. I think I've got a more simplistic list than a lot of players though.

    enjoifriend, Fondness for Dowsing Machine? Heh, I guess. I wouldn't normally run it in Blastoise, as I really need a quick T2 Candy+Blastoise. But to grab that Scrapper... I've found 2 is a good number to be able to really pressure Garbodor. Though I have played around with 2 Scrappers and a Dowsing Machine to just try and make Garbodor a "gg" matchup. I haven't had your more negative experiences, but I have found that Dowsing for Scrapper is tough. I think I appreciate Comp Search more to make the T1 Tropical Beach a better possibility. That's what Blastoise wants to accomplish most, and the rest of the game is determined by it. So I think I'm alright just settling on 2 Scrappers, and I would play Comp Search over any other Ace Spec in Blastoise.

    bocox06 and enjoifriend, I would be interested in how many Energies you guys are running in your Blastoise lists? Ever since I switched to the @Kettler/Wamboldt approach to Blastoise, I haven't ever wanted to go back, especially with BK EX discarding Energies.

    Hmm... I guess what I find interesting though, is that both of you have essentially said that Cilan is 'there when you need it.' It's there during a late-game N, and it's there once you're set up and just need that 3 Energy.

    I don't know if I like the concept of a 1-of Supporter being 'there when I need it.'

    A 1-of Item can be Skyla'd for, but a 1-of Supporter means you need to have it right then and there when you need it, drawn into naturally.

    Like I've said, these are the deckbuilding choices where all of them are strong options. I was a bit worried in writing an article about this sort of controversial topic. I mean, Cilan for 3 when you're set up is undeniably great. But how often does it actually pop up in a late-game N? When I've played it, it's definitely a card in your hand that shows up when you've got your Blastoise up and going, which is always great. But I also want to say... Catcher that turn, or bench another Basic. Or perhaps I need more than 3 Energy (definitely happens with your opponent's attempts to stall against BK EX by Catcher'ing an empty Keldeo). y'know?

    Thoughts? And rant away! Again, every card I discussed is undeniably good in their respective decks. But if I were choosing between one or the other, I know what I'd take.
  15. briaah

    briaah Beware of flying donuts.

    Great article! (Why am I always 2 days late in commenting?)

    I almost disagree with you though on the point of Keldeo v. Emolga in RayEels. But then again, I like both of them and they're both really good in the deck imho. I might just be biased with Keldeo, but it has gotten me out of a couple of sticky situations when my Quaza was locked active by an HTL from sleep. And though I'd rather not give up the 2 prizes at all, I think I'd much rather have my opponent KO Keldeo than Rayquaza.

    On the other hand, like you mentioned, Emolga always gets the free retreat even without SAB and it can help against a poor start. But actually, my question for you was more Emolga v. 4th Ultra Ball.

    Last week at states I only ran 3 Ultra Ball and an Emolga since I didn't have a 4th Ultra Ball and had no way of getting one before the tournament (I was already borrowing a Dowsing Machine and Keldeo from someone to play the deck that day.) I liked having both Keldeo and Emolga in the deck because I could then use whichever Pokemon I wanted depending on the situation I was in. Sometimes Keldeo was better and sometimes Emolga was.

    So, now I have the 4th Ultra Ball and I really like my list but I'm trying to decide if the Emolga or Ultra Ball will be better. I really do like Keldeo and don't want to give it up for Emolga since it really did help against my Darkrai match-ups. Any thoughts? I like Ultra Ball for the ability to discard lightning energy when needed but Emolga can be pretty useful too...(sorry for the confusing post!)
  16. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    briaah, if you're fitting in both, 4th Ultra is definitely a slot I can see the room coming from. I've seen people playing 3/3 on their balls and I think they're crazy, but it's all a personal playstyle.
  17. briaah

    briaah Beware of flying donuts.

    I don't think I'd ever go down to 3/3 balls in RayEels. I'm just too uncomfortable with it. 4 Level Balls all the time is what I've learned. But, what I always heard was that if you can't play 4 Ultra Balls in RayEels then an Emolga is a must but if you can't play Emolga then 4 Ultra Balls is a must. This might be highly a matter of opinion but, which is better?
  18. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    briaah, I am currently convinced Emolga is a great card for the deck, worthy of inclusion even over Keldeo (who I still love very much, but can't fit due to room). So I'd say Emolga > 4th Ultra.

    Oh yeah, Reshiphlosion, I forgot one added benefit. Switch also works like a pseudo Energy-Switch, in preventing my opponent from Catcher Stall. That way I don't need to hit "Energy + Energy Switch," I can just hit "Energy + Switch." So in essence, for that combo, I haven't lost any consistency cards. I have made one card situational though.
  19. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    I suppose, I'll try it out but I still like my scrappers :p
    Crawdaunt likes this.
  20. briaah

    briaah Beware of flying donuts.

    Hm, ok, thanks for that! :)