Tier 2 TDK - Thundurus EX, Deoyxs EX, Kyurem PLF

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by VictiniCup, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. JAM

    JAM Consistency > Techs

    You are right about the sacrifice in damage output. Most importantly, you loose that output against the powerful non-EX attackers we have in the format, as you mentioned. However, I would like to point out that not playing LaserBank makes TDK a spacious deck with more room of consistency cards. For example, you run 4 Lasers, 2 Virbanks and 2 Bangles. That is 8 Cards were a deck that runs only bangle is only running 3-4. That means they can run four or five more cards to make their deck run more consistently than yours.

    If you run 4 Kyurem, 4 Colress Machine, 4 Skyla and 13 energies you are going to get Turn 1 Frost Spear more often that someone running 3 Kyurem, 3 Colress Marchine, 3 Skyla and 12 energies. You are also more likely to have a Deoxys or two on the bench turn 1 if you run 4 instead of 3.

    I'm not saying your build isn't powerful or the right way to build it, but it is worth testing the deck without lasers when you see the benefits you can gain in consistency. I see a lot of people talking about how 4 Colress Machines is to many because of late game or you don't need 4 Deoxys, but this deck is all about overwhelming the opponent as quickly as possible. Its not always about how many you need, but how often you want to see a particular card. Do you want to see Kyurem, Colress Machine and Deoxys turn one? Why not run four of them then?

    I like Bangle w/o LaserBank for these reasons. The build I'm testing now is even more consistent than my build from last format at getting those turn one Frost Spears. Frost Spears that can 2HKO EXs now that we have Silver Bangle.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  2. MP7373

    MP7373 Member

    I think with best of 3 in swiss now you don't have to worry as much about losing the random game due to a bad hand so I think that Laser/Virbank is even more worth it for that reason. That isn't to say you don't gain something from playing more consistency cards its just that I feel that impact of 4 Hypnotoxic Laser and 2 Virbank City Gym is greater than 1 Kyurem , 1 Skyla , 1 Deoxys EX , 1 Silver Bangle , 1 Energy, and 1 Colress Machine (just an example of consistency cards you could play instead).
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  3. JAM

    JAM Consistency > Techs

    Good point, I can't wait for things to get started so we can see were this format takes us. I think its going to be the best formats in some time.
  4. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    Well I've already started testing it and I can see where you're coming from. It does give the deck more outs to damage but I think that keeping it at 4/2 is a bit excessive when you have Bangle in the deck. I think maybe 4/1 or maybe 3/1 could be more optimal if there are other cards you wish to include as well.
  5. Blueye95

    Blueye95 TCG is all i need

    I have 3/2 and 2 bangles ;) i dont even have room for 4/2 atm (and i still got a space to find for my dear absol).
  6. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    Well at this point it feels more like a "tech". If I feel I need more then I will definitely find the room
  7. jbcheshire

    jbcheshire Member

    Commenting on having 13 vs 15 supporters, I can tell you what normally happens is that you will tend to find your hand clogged with useless supporters more often than you think. It's happened to me too many times and it is very frustrating.
  8. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    Now that I've been testing it I like the LaserBank in addition to the Silver Bangle. I'm trying to fit in at least another Laser OR Gym and I'm not sure what I want to take out. I have a couple cards that I am considering getting rid of but I'm not completely sure.
  9. Reshiphlosion

    Reshiphlosion The Swarm

    Wait, I apologize for being out of the loop but I have a question; did Virizion EX turn out to be just over hyped? Because I've heard a lot about laserbank lately and I thought that it wouldn't really see play in TDK thanks to Virizion... :s
  10. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    Its 4-5 cards that are dead in that matchup alone. In every other match it is a very solid advantage. Some people are taking that risk.
  11. JAM

    JAM Consistency > Techs

    Yeah, to me there are two different deck choices here depending on the presence of Virizion EX my local meta-game. If Virizion has a strong presence in the form of Virizion/Genesect or Darkrai/Hydregion then I would run a streamline TDK build with Silver Bangle and no LaserBank. If there is little to no Virizion then I would opt for the my old favorite from last format, Kyurem/Deoxys/Keldeo w LaserBank & Exp Share. I don't see myself mixing the two, only because I'm a consistency freak and it makes me cringe thinking about running two of this, two this and three of that. I like things in fours.
  12. yoyos

    yoyos delicious hot potatos

    It is a risk, but just off of my area alone, It really does seem like lasers in TDK is the best way to go.
  13. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    It really does depend on your meta, in my area the risk is worth it as well.

    But again I play garbodor so I am biased.
  14. public_toilet

    public_toilet Seriously Likeable here guys, Just sayin.

    I've recently tried out 3 lasers 1 virbank. I find now that bangle is doing even more damage, the 20 more poison isn't needed and in any match ups like DarkGarb they have the Virbank out anyway. The only downfall with this (I can see) is that you don't have enough counter stadiums for beach however they either send up a BK ex and they need a catcher to KO Deoxys/Thundurus/Keldeo (as you can just 1HKO it- Blizzard burn+Bangle+Deoxys/laser +previous frost spear snipe) or, if they dare, give 4 energy to Keldeo - KOing your Kyurem, you can hopefully Helix force for 150 + lasers or frost spear snipe.

    For DarkGarb you can frost spear and laserbank for 60 and if they A) don't switch/retreat their Sableye then they are KO'ed going into your turn and you can KO that other Sableye/Darkrai that you sniped with frost spear, using Catcher. or B) Retreat and they are in perfect range for snipe - you don't even need Virbank out to leave Sableye on 30 after Frost spear+laser.

    Obviously, none of these points I make are foolproof (as is pretty much anything in Pokemon) yet the math adds up.

    I've tested this 3 lasers and 1 Virbank combo and it will still compete well and it saves 1 or 2 spots in my deck for that all important Supporter/2nd tool scrapper.
  15. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    I've been testing well with 3/1 LaserBank. It gives you enough cards to make an impact in every other match up but doesn't render too many cards useless in the Genesect match up (or anything with Virizion for that matter).
  16. yoyos

    yoyos delicious hot potatos

    Minus virizion, laser+bangle kyurem is uber deadly. virbank is okay, but the lasers are much more detrimental.
  17. DarthNick

    DarthNick Brick Specialist

    I'm currently attempting to build a list that focuses less on special energy and more on basic with Exp. Share (not crazily though).

    Here's what I've got:

    Pokemon (9):
    4x Deoxys EX
    3x Kyurem PLF
    2x Thundurus EX

    T/S/S (38):

    4x N
    3x Juniper
    2x Colress
    2x Skyla
    1x Shadow Triad

    3x Colress Machine
    3x Pokemon Catcher
    3x Switch
    1x Float Stone
    2x Exp. Share
    2x Silver Bangle
    2x Tool Scrapper
    3x Hypnotoxic Laser
    1x Virbank City Gym
    2x Team Plasma Ball
    2x Ultra Ball
    1x Super Rod

    1x Computer Search

    Energy (13):
    5x Water
    4x Prism
    4x Plasma

    I'd really like to squeeze in another Skyla, but can't see where. I'm probably gonna see how Shadow Triad is, and maybe drop that. Another float stone would be nice too. I haven't actually played it yet (have it in person, but haven't had time to play) and I haven't acquired all the cards online yet either.

    What do you guys think? Anyone else play something extremely similar?
  18. Serperior

    Serperior Well-Known Member

    DarthNick Drop a Shadow Triad for a Juniper
  19. DarthNick

    DarthNick Brick Specialist

    I actually severely dislike Juniper. I don't think I'll ever run more than 3. I actually only ran 2 in my Klinklang build, and it was survivable.
  20. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Slow Stage 2 deck that likes large hands =/= Speedy deck that wants to get the biggest lead possible ASAP and continue from there. I really don't think your point is very valid.
    yoyos, pokemonguy, JAM and 1 other person like this.