Tier 2 TDK - Thundurus EX, Deoyxs EX, Kyurem PLF

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by VictiniCup, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. Chaostamer

    Chaostamer Active Member

    I think Muscle Band is better than Silver Bangle here--or it's at least strong enough to justify running a mix. A Banded Thundurus is a huge threat early game, spreading considerable damage while setting up Kyurem.

    As for Supporters, I agree that N is essential, and I'd recommend a third Colress. With so many Basic Pokémon and Balls to search them out, it's rarely a dead card. I don't think you need more than a single Shadow Triad here. You don't run Genesect, so Red Signal isn't a factor, and you have high enough counts of your other cards to get away without a recursion effect, I think.

    Have you considered a Lugia-EX? With Scramble Switch in the deck, it seems like a nice tech and an easy way to finish off a game. Spread some Frost Spear damage onto Pokémon-EX, Scramble Switch into Lugia, drop a Muscle Band, and win.
  2. Wrags23

    Wrags23 Feeling... rogue.

    I'm aware of why people would play Ultra Ball (to search for non-Plasma Pokemon, but more importantly to get Energy in the discard for Thundy EX). I just don't know about running Fan Club, 4 Team Plasma Balls, and 1 Ultra Ball. In my Plasma list, I have found 2 Team Plasma Ball and 1 Ultra Ball to be plenty.
  3. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    I'm all but convinced that having Keldeo-EX in this deck strengthens versatility. I went to League yesterday and managed to get back-to-back Blizzard Burns and even used Helix Force a few times. I beat a Charizard deck 2-1 and a VirGen deck 2-0. I would have had the Charizard deck 2-0 but I misplayed a combination of Scramble Switch, Switch, and Keldeo-EX.
  4. Wrags23

    Wrags23 Feeling... rogue.

    I'm not telling you that Keldeo EX is not worth it, because I understand how it is good in TDK. I've been trying to say that you run way too many Pokemon Search cards, and you should definitely cut some for more space. Like I said earlier, I run 2 Team Plasma Balls and 1 Ultra Ball in my list and it works just fine. And, yes, N needs to be in this deck; it isn't interchangeable with Shauna.
  5. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    Here's the list I have as of currently. Dropped Fan Club for Colress and one Triad for a Muscle Band.

    I've decided that keeping the 4 Plasma Ball would be ideal for me because I need the consistency of hitting all the Pokemon I need when I need them. Most of my opponents remark about how I always seem to have the cards I need when I need them.

    Pokemon - 12
    4 Deoxys-EX
    4 Kyurem PLF
    2 Thundurus-EX
    2 Keldeo-EX

    Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums - 36
    4 Professor Juniper
    4 Shauna/N
    3 Colress
    2 Skyla
    1 Shadow Triad
    1 Lysandre

    4 Team Plasma Ball
    4 Colress Machine
    4 Muscle Band
    2 Float Stone
    2 Switch
    2 Startling Megaphone
    1 Ultra Ball
    1 ACE Spec Scramble Switch

    2 Frozen City

    Energy - 12
    4 Rainbow
    4 Plasma
    4 Prism
  6. Wrags23

    Wrags23 Feeling... rogue.

    I still say that you have too many Team Plasma Balls. I'd drop one. Also, do you really need 4 Colress Machines? You'll draw into those Plasma Energies, and you don't have attackers like Lugia and Snorlax (because it's TDK) that can take on a whole bunch of Plasma Energy. Kyurem and Deoxys are the two Pokemon you would need to Colress Machine onto, and they only require one Colorless Energy.
  7. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    I took a page out of the article "Frost Spear, GG" and decided that testing with 4 Colress Machine would be something to try. I would drop the Plasma Ball count to 3 if I wanted a second Triad back in the deck, but I haven't played with this deck for at least a week. It needs more thorough playing to see what the problem is.
  8. mattynate

    mattynate That's not rasslin'!!

    What's your reply to pyroar?
  9. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    @mattynate Yes.

    I'm thinking of looking into Froslass PLF because it only needs 3 Deoxys to kill Pyroar. It would hurt consistency, however, but its Ability is really useful as well.

    Where I am now, Pyroar is not a popular play so I am not putting in Froslass as of yet. But I am watching for the popularity of Pyroar as a whole metagame, not just where I am locally.

    Here's a list I made up.

    Pokemon - 15
    3 Deoxys-EX
    4 Kyurem PLF
    2 Thundurus-EX
    2 Keldeo-EX
    2 Snorunt
    2 Froslass PLF

    Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums - 33
    4 Professor Juniper
    3 Shauna/N
    3 Colress
    2 Skyla
    1 Shadow Triad
    1 Lysandre

    4 Team Plasma Ball
    3 Muscle Band
    3 Colress Machine
    2 Float Stone
    2 Switch
    2 Startling Megaphone
    1 Ultra Ball
    1 ACE Spec Scramble Switch

    2 Frozen City

    Energy - 12
    4 Rainbow
    4 Plasma
    4 Prism
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  10. Gelato

    Gelato The Swarm

    Octillery PLB is probably better than Froslass cause it only needs one energy and either muscle band and a Deoxys or 3 Deoxys to OHKO Pyroar.
    mattynate likes this.
  11. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    I thought about Octillery. But there's two problems.

    1. I want something that is designed not only to beat Pyroar but to assist in other matches as well. Things with abilities usually help the most.

    2. Octillery's first attack is a fixed damage attack. Since there's no base to work off of, I don't think it receives a boost from Muscle Band or Power Connect.
  12. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    If you attack your opponent's active Pokemon, it would receive a Deoxys/Muscle Band Boost, but attacking a benched Pokemon wouldn't get boosted.

    I agree though that Octillery is dead weight in all other matchups. There are far better options for a small stage 1 line.
  13. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    I think that, in keeping in line with the speed and aggressive nature of the Plasma deck, Froslass is the best choice. Sharpedo's ability is kind of passive, even with the usefulness of free retreat. Octillery, as previously stated, is dead weight in every other matchup. Glaceon, while offering a great option of universal free retreat, takes too many energy to power up and doesn't offer an ability that immediately hinders the opposing party (whereas Froslass stuffs Supporters for at least one turn after Pyroar is eliminated). Froslass is searchable with Plasma Ball if you draw into Snorunt, and if you're running Ultra Ball like I am, you can waste the Ultra on the Snorunt if it's really required.
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
  14. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    Just so we're clear, Froslass stops the opponent from attaching Special Energy from their hand, not Supporters. I'll agree that it's useful in more matchups than Octillery would ever be, but there's still many matchups where it'd also be dead weight (Blastoise, Rayboar, VirGen, Darkrai, to name a few) and I'd prefer something that can hit for more than 30 damage. Froslass is useful in the mirror, against Fairies, and against Charizard/Pyroar. That's really about it as far as popular metagame decks go.
  15. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    Which one of those water-type Plasma cards stopped Supporters? I know for sure there was one.
  16. Tsunami

    Tsunami Seems legit.

    There isn't one that I know of
  17. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    The only card in format that stops supporters is Stoutland BCR.

    Well, ability-wise in the way you're thinking, anyway. Krookodile XY among others can stop Supporters with an attack.
  18. CyrusTyler

    CyrusTyler Skill Level: Average Plebian

    That's right. Well damn. Back to the drawing board.

    Topic of the thread: Froslass or Glaceon?
  19. rustedspork

    rustedspork Member

    Or something like Latias EX, like the guy who just won Argentina states played. I think that's your best option, honestly. It's got the most utility against the most matchups, and takes the fewest deck space.
  20. pokemonguy

    pokemonguy Making Bad Last-Minute Changes Since Nats 2014

    For the love of god play Mini Ray. Mini Ray is better because it is non-EX, it OHKOs Pyroar with a Muscle Band.