Tier 2 TDK - Thundurus EX, Deoyxs EX, Kyurem PLF

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by VictiniCup, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. okcd

    okcd New Member

    I replaced 1 Deoxys EX with Cobalion EX to deal with those anti-plasma decks and it worked great so far. My personal preference is 3 Deoxys EX and 1 Cobalion EX instead of 4 Deoxys EX.

    Lasers also work great against VirGen to get rid of their drifloon and drifblim, they won't attach energy to their drifs anyway.
  2. Blueye95

    Blueye95 TCG is all i need

    What is the reasoning for running 3 float stones with keldeo EX and only one switch?

    Also here is prams list:
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  3. MP7373

    MP7373 Member

    What is the reasoning for running 3 float stones with keldeo EX and only one switch?


    3 Float Stones (as opposed to less) is to give you a high chance of getting the Float Stone down on Keldeo as early as possible as well as having a 3rd Float Stone if say you have to discard 1 and another gets Tool Scrappered, 1 Switch is for switching out of Sleep/Paralyses. Ideally I would like to have 3 Float Stones and 2 Switch (especially with the popularity of Garbodor) but this list already cuts a lot of corners to fit everything. I could potentially cut Absol for a 2nd Switch but I believe having a hard hitting 2 energy attacker that only gives up 1 prize is extremely powerful in certain situations. I also think that 2 Silver Bangles is important for constantly powerful Frost Spears and an almost guaranteed 170-180 when you Blizzard Burn. All this said Dowsing Machine can be extremely good in Plasma (especially in a list that tries to fit so much) but the reason I still play Computer Search is because the greatest strength of Plasma is its speed and having Computer Search allows you to more consistently overwhelm slower decks in the early game and when you do that you don't need all of your resources because you win so quickly.

    This list is tough to get right that much is clear.
  4. pokemonguy

    pokemonguy Making Bad Last-Minute Changes Since Nats 2014

    BTW, MP7373 your sig has a typo it should be TECHS not TECH.

    On topic as b_m said above, Keldeo EX-Float Stone is a liability. I think heavy switch is better.
  5. Blueye95

    Blueye95 TCG is all i need

    I think this is going to be the biggest struggle for plasma, fitting all in especially switch cards. For me it is basically one of four options has to happen to get a 60 card deck. Otherwise i am stuck at 61 cards:

    - Do not run Keldeo Ex and stick to 4 switch cards only (2/2 float/switch)
    - Do not run Absol to free up space for an extra card
    - Do not run 13 Energy which forces you to run more blends
    - Do not run 4 Deoxys (which is not a real option)

    About the why not run three deoxys, let me quote Pram for that one:

    "As for Deoxys counts, you can get away with 3 and sometimes be fine, but the assurance of having 4 in your deck of such a big card is nice. It’s kinda like playing 3 Catcher. Sure you can get away with it, but would you really want to?"
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  6. darkwings

    darkwings Never give the monkey a gun

    So here's an idea for the deck: instead of running Plasma Landy, run Terrakion. It's not and EX, not a Plasma, and beats the living crap out of Darkrai/Garbodor
  7. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    There are several issues that terrakion brings up. First off you need to be given 2 turns to attach energies, or run plasma badges just for terrakion which doesn't seem like a good idea, and darkrai can still just work around terrakion with smart snipes and laser KO's
  8. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    This is actually quite the opposite of what you can really do. I have actually done it. You CAN fit everything you want in the deck. I don't use Keldeo mainly because of personal preference but I always could if I really wanted to but I have 5 switching options. I run 13 energy, Absol, AND 4 Deoxys and still find the room to have 15 supporter cards NOT INCLUDING Dowsing Machine and other such cards. My deck runs fine, consistently and has incredibly consistent match ups due to the way I have engineered my deck to function.

    Thinking you can't run all these things in TDK is nothing more than an illusion to me. I have fit everything I needed to into my deck. It IS possible. Trust me on this one. TDK is a little tight on space, yes, but you can do it. Believe me.
  9. darkwings

    darkwings Never give the monkey a gun

    I understand that you need 2 turns to set up Terrakion, but that's what it's like for Kyurem PLB too (unless you can hit the t1 colress machine too). Lasers may screw it over, but you still have land crush.
  10. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    once you place it down darkrai players will just focus on it. And on top of that, do you really want to take 3 turns of energy attachment to a card that can easily be taken down by darkrai
  11. pokemonguy

    pokemonguy Making Bad Last-Minute Changes Since Nats 2014

    But what does that give you? An extra turn because they wasted a turn KOing Terrakion.
  12. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    how is that giving you a turn. If you attach an energy to it then I know you are trying to use it, so I just focus on the terrakion with my darkrai. If you just place it down and don't attach then its a waste of space. You can fit in terrakion and plasma badge, but think of all the space that it takes up.
  13. Blueye95

    Blueye95 TCG is all i need


    I am not stating it is entirely impossible to fit stuff in, but the reality is that you have a 60 card limit so it is extremely hard fit everything in. Heck, many players even admit to the fact hat they always wanted to have more card in their deck than possible so they had to cut counts.

    But let us not create a pointless debate on that topic, let us talk pokemon. So can you tell us how you where able to fit all that into the deck? I can understand if you don't want to show your list, but you could give us someplace to start??
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  14. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    I don't like to posts my personal lists but I can try to give some insight on how I did it.

    I tried to make the list as consistent as possible without teching too many cards into the list. I basically started with a thin skeleton and went from there. Then I realized that the deck can get away quite nicely with only 3 Pokemon search cards. After you have squeezed everything else into your list and have the wiggle room for another Pokemon search card then by all means add another. The deck can also get away with only 3 Colress Machine. 4 is indeed the most optimal number but the deck can function either way. My deck is slightly more focused on keeping myself alive and healthy in the late game as well as the early game so I run Dowsing Machine over Computer Search. The card fits my needs just fine since the deck appreciates it much more than more aggressive builds. I run 13 energy since I feel 12 is way too little to keep streaming Kyurems. I run the usual line of 4 Plasma, Prism, and Blend along with a single water energy for Kyurem (he is the main attacker after all and enjoys having the extra energy in the deck). I run 5 switching cards and have found that either 4-1 or 3-2 Switch/Float Stone is the best way to go if you don't run Keldeo. I run 15 Supporter cards. I have 12 Supporters and 3 Bicycle which works better than most would believe but I have started growing fond of having 4 Colress in the list so I may end up editing my list to compensate.

    If I was helpful at all or if you need me to elaborate a bit more then please don't hesitate to let me know.

    Oh and by the way I'm sorry if I came across a bit aggressive in my previous message. That was not my intent.
  15. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Let's break this down

    2 Thundurus
    3 Kyurem
    4 Deoxys
    1 Absol
    =10

    15 Supporters/Bicycle
    5 Switching cards
    1 ACE SPEC
    = 21

    13 Energy

    leaving you 16 slots, 14 of which are taken by this minimum staple line up

    4 Catcher
    3 Ultra/Plasma Ball
    3 Colress Machine
    2 Bangle
    2 Tool Scrapper

    That leaves 2 spaces for whatever - more Bangle/Scrapper, or Frozen City (ugh) . . . . I dunno. Not enough to run LaserBank though, so we do have a compromise here. Not a bad one necessarily, but it does show that deckbuilding always involves compromises and there are always things that you have to leave out, no matter how well built a deck is.

    Basically, if you ever feel like you have every single card that you want in a deck, then you have forgotten something.
  16. Mr_Rumpleteezer

    Mr_Rumpleteezer Hovercat Mod

    Darkrai/Garbodor beats this deck by Hammer tricks. I'm currently playing around with some high basic energy counts to see how it works out.
  17. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    Well I didn't really want LaserBank in my list but I do see your point of compromise. If one were to want LaserBank in the deck then another approach would be necessary. I feel the deck functions better without LaserBank anyways (but that's just me).
  18. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    You may not want LaserBank in your list, but it is undeniably very useful and helps out greatly in several match ups. With LaserBank and Bangle, Kyurem can still OHKO a Darkrai, even with Garbodor shutting of Deoxys, for example. Laser is still a ridiculously good card - that hasn't changed because a relatively small number of players are using Virizion/Genesect.
  19. onlyinAMERICA

    onlyinAMERICA ...because I'm Batman.

    I do recognize that it is still pretty useful but honestly I haven't had too many problems with Darkrai/Garbodor shutting off Deoxys considering you can also factor in Thundurus' Raiden Knuckle attack and whether or not you Frost Speared. Many factors play in to hoe you can come across an OHKO in TDK. I understand against a fresh Darkrai that it would become problematic but I haven't had it become so much of a problem that I would absolutely need LaserBank. I understand it helps swing the match up closer to 50-50 but I don't see it as a terribly losing match up in the first place.
  20. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    The Darkrai thing was just an example. Darkrai isn't really the issue in that match up anyway.

    Probably more on point is the fact that Frost Spear/LaserBank/1 Deoxys will KO Sableye.