The Dark Explorers Deck List Depot

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by badganondorf, May 1, 2012.

  1. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

  2. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Nice job on the article man, let me say this if I saw an article with more Empoleon I would have been having flashbacks to 2008 ah the good old days :)
  3. atomix

    atomix Member

    Great article and some very good deck lists. However as an eel player I'm not too sure about the eel list. I have not tested with any of the dex cards yet (still waiting for my box to arrive) however I believe that 1 raikou ex would be enough and i still think that including 2 thundurus is best as it is the best starter for eels and the in my opinion eels does so well because of the amount of non-ex attackers available to it. I personally see raikou as a tech for mirror matches. And while starting with it isn't bad, thanks to 1 retreat I would much prefer to start with my thundurus and start getting energy discarded quickly to fuel raikou for the mid/late game when your opponant is setting up eels.

    But as said I haven't been able to test properly yet and we will have to see what the play is once we get some results in.
  4. DrMime

    DrMime Grand Poo-Bah

    Empoleon GRRR! How is it that everyone loves this deck? I've tested a mix of a few different starters (Virizion, Cleffa, Pichu, Smeargle), Supporter lines, and basics engines, and too often I get stuck with no Empoleons on the board turn 3 vs. Darkrai or CMT. Okay, I haven't tested Esa's list specifically, but I've been testing with even more consistency--more than Esa's 11 supporters, more pokemon search--and my guys just get picked off too quickly. What does everyone know about Empoleon that I don't?
  5. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    How many games have you logged with Empoleon then? and who against that would help your answer a lot lol
  6. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

    lucarioAdventure1: Thanks!

    atomix: Well, the Zeels list in the article isn't the ordinary Zeels deck. In my opinion, every Zeel deck has its own strategy depending on which techs it plays. Raikou EX is one of the main attackers in this list and in normal build 1 is usually enough but this isn't the normal deck. Raikou EX based build is especially good against mirror matches. It's not bad against CMT either because Mewtwo has tough time attacking Raikous because you're able to discard all the energy from it.

    DrMime: For me Empoleon has run great so far. Another surefire way to set-up is in my opinion Twins + Pichu style. Empoleon's ability takes care of the rest of the set-up. However, in this deck, I'm fan of more speedy and risky build with not so much orientation towards consistency in supporters. You can also run Empoleon with Donphan if you find Terrakion difficult to get into play but Donphan has it own problems as well.

    Thanks for comments everyone!
  7. DrMime

    DrMime Grand Poo-Bah

    Against...me. I always play a deck solitaire until I feel like I "get" the deck, and only then will I start playing against others. I've played ~15 solitaire games with different configurations, so not a ton, but that's usually enough for me to get the basic feel. Not with this one though. Seems like there's a very stark difference between the cards I need early game (Candy, Empoleon, Tools, Supporters/Gear/RR) and the cards I need late game (Catcher, Junk Arm, Healing, Super Rod), and all too often my early-game hand stalls with late-game cards.
  8. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    That may be why, you near enough always need a second person when testing a deck (preferably a good player) so they can give you their thoughts tbh
  9. moe1216

    moe1216 Member

    If I may ask, why are there no collectors in the eel lists? I mean sure dual ball lets you use a different supporter, but it gets less pokemon than collector, might not even get you any pokes, and you may find yourself exhausting junk arms that could be used to get other cards like Catcher, switch, or plus powers. Not saying it's a bad a call in anyway, especially since quite a few players did well with, namely Pooka (the only off the top of my head at this time).
  10. A7XEric

    A7XEric Member

    A lot of players have done very well without collector. At NC States Ryan Sabelhouse went undefeated in Swiss and Top Cut with a smeargle/dual ball take on ZekEels and you can watch videos on thetopcut.net of many other players using similar builds.

    Anyways, the abundance of Smeargle in the meta is sort of the reason I like the use of Dual Ball over collector in ZekEels. The lack of Collector can cause them to whiff on a Supporter with Portrait or be forced to use a supporter that would hurt them more than help like Juniper. Plus you can Dual Ball and a draw supporter in the same turn which is great. Even if you get double tails you may draw into the pokemon you were searching for or draw into more search cards like dual ball/level ball. I don't think the preference of dual ball/collector is right or wrong. Just comes down to each persons play style I suppose.
  11. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    I agree with DrMime on this one. I usually like to play against myself when testing a new deck, and I give it the run of it's life. It never gets to go first, and it's opponent (some established decklist) always gets mulligans whereas it gets none. I give it no advantages and I also want to make sure I know how to play it properly before I challenge anyone else, in case I make misplays and get discouraged without even realizing my potential options. The other thing is, I know I'm a good player. I have some friends who are good players, but overall it's much easier to just play against yourself. That said, in order to do it effectively, you need good decklists, and you also need to be a pretty versatile player capable of piloting multiple decks with varying strategies. Without that, you may want a specialized opponent.

    As for the article!

    Esa! Thanks a ton for this article! This is by far the thing I'd been missing in preparing for DEX. I don't have enough time to proxy out a ton of cards or build and test decks on redshark/playtcg (nor do I like to because I just explained that I like playing myself with a deck first). A couple interesting questions:

    Zoroark/Weavile:
    - No DCE?
    - 3 Rescue Energies eh? And only 2 Weavile?
    - Loved the mention of Sneasel being a great card with Dark Claw and Special Dark Energy. Hadn't thought of that yet (haven't tested at all yet)

    Darkrai EX/Tornadus EX:
    - No stadium? I realize you have Darkrai EX, but Skyarrow Bridge would help both Smeargle and Tornadus EX a lot, as well as make everything else a free retreater without using up an energy attachment.

    Accelgor:
    - I had a thought on Accelgor with Vileplume. If you were to substitute some of the Kingdra line with Tyrogue, and simply finish them off with Tyrogue in between turns, then you have a 50% chance of getting away with it, and you get a turn to re-set up your Accelgors. It's also easier to set than Kingdra and could probably work. I also like the Darkrai for Gothitelle. I was using Dodrio, but Darkrai provides so much more space.

    Overall, great article. This one was the most informative for me as a player because for the most part, I (like many others) can spot most of the intricacies involved in a deck (sometimes I can't, nobody's perfect). It's really just about getting a massive amount of decklist information out to know how to play with and against a deck or decks.
  12. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

    moe1216: The Ball engine was good even without Random Receiver. After Random Receiver - it's even better! If you haven't tried the Ball Engine w/Random Receiver yet, I really suggest you do. It's SO much better in some decks than Collector engine that it's unbelievable.

    Crawdaunt: Thanks a lot.

    Zoroark/Weavile: DCEs aren't necessary. IMO anyone, who is stating otherwise hasn't tested the deck enough. I found the deck better without DCE than with DCE. However, I'm sure there are people who differ with my opinion. Also, I must have forgot to mention that it may be good to run 3 Weaviles in the deck, if you find space for it. Too often, I've ended up Claw Sangging a hand with 2 Junipers and Random Receiver and I'm like "yeah right...".

    Darkrai EX/Tornadus EX: Darkrai's ability is enough. Even though Skyarrow Bridge works with Tornadus, I don't like it. The emphasis with this deck should be on Darkrai, not Tornadus. Switch are great in the deck since all you need is Smeargle/Sableye once in the active position. You should be getting T2s pretty consistently.

    Accelgor: Yeah, Vileplume is the other option but I think Vileplume slows you down too much. When you're trainerlocked, you can't keep the "flow" going. Keeping Accelgors/Mews going in a trainer lock after mid/late-game N is just too frustrating and difficult. I believe that Gothitelle is the only really viable way to make this deck truly competitive. But in the end, that's just my opinion.
  13. moe1216

    moe1216 Member

    Really? Guess I could try it out. My reason is because Dual ball has hurt me more than helped me recently, though random receiver will hopefully remedy that.
  14. PP101

    PP101 The Swarm for 3 seconds then accidentally left

    Empoleon being a good deck? Yes, please. XD

    EMPOLEON, FOR DA WIN!!!
  15. DCalpha

    DCalpha Underground Member

    it looks like cali will have a empoleon player XXXXXXDDDDD....

    but only real time an the 200+ battle roads we will see coming up soon will tell. In the history of pokemon there has always been the surprise factor, when someone breaks the tresh hold of card pool and takes off with a super strong meta counter deck. given the fact that darkness, electric, colorless have a terrakion dobphan ladorus weekness{ besides tornadus, zapdos} i still see terrakion as a front runner and is not going any where.

    this mew accelgor can hit pretty dame hard imo, you just have to know the right techs.

    Remember all you californians adventures in comics and games in carmichael,CA is having one last pre release for DE...hope to see you there 2pm.
  16. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    By the way before i forget the empoleon list has 61 cards in (the one you put up in the article) it has a miscount of Pokemon it should be 15 not 14 :p
  17. frozendukie

    frozendukie New Member

    Did anybody notice his Pokemon count was off for the Empoleon decklist? He had a total of 14 Pokemon, but it was actually 15.

    4-2-4 Empoleon = 10
    1 Cleffa, 1 Pichu, 1 Virizion = 3
    2 Terrakion = 2
    = 15 Pokemon.
  18. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    Yeah, noticed that when I put it into PlayTCG to test against. I took out the eviolite to make the list down to 60 to test against.

    Add me to the group that thinks Empoleon/Terrakion isn't a good deck. I've tested my own version of the deck, a bunch of other people's, and Esa's now, and I'm finding the Darkrai matchup to be really bad. Haven't really tested anything else out, but I would imagine the Zeels and Zoroark matchups can't be that good, and I could see CMT giving it a lot of problems too.
  19. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    To me I think the deck burns out a little bit too easily, as max 120 vs everything but Landorus and Groudon the former you one shot anyways isn't that good tbh
  20. Charranitar

    Charranitar Well-Known Member

    I haven't tested it against Zoroark/Zeels, but in my mind, those mathcups can't be too good for this deck either.

    I've just tested the crap out of this with Darkrai, and it loses pretty badly to Darkrai. It's main problem is once Darkrai is setup, Darkrai takes the equivalent of a prize a turn. Darkrai + Dark Claw takes 2 prizes every other turn, and sometimes 2 prizes in 1 turn when taking out stuff like Virizion/Piplup and a Baby. It's easy to play around the Terrakions with Darkrai, because the deck doesn't invest too many resources into making Terrakion work (low fighting count, low exp. share count).

    Seems like Tier 2.5 stuff to me.