The Underground

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by badganondorf, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

    This is the thread for discussing the following article:

    The Underground

    Post your comments and questions below! Any and all honest feedback is much appreciated.
  2. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod.

    Shouldn't that be grass-weak? Or were we talking about Kyogre here?
  3. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

    I wrote Lighting, because I still associate Lighting weakness to Water Pokémon more than Grass weakness even though in the current format things aren't like that anymore. Probably I'm just too old-fashioned :(
  4. sibon

    sibon official pajama cardinal

    10,000 words is too mainstream.

    9999 is more... Underground. (Sorry)

    Great article Esa!
  5. darkraiguy

    darkraiguy Member

    Awesome article, Esa. I can't wait to try out that Landorus/Garchomp list out (if I can ever get my hands on enough Landorus, that is). +1 from me :)

    Just a quick tip: "lightning" has two 'n's, one right after the 't' ;)
  6. cabd

    cabd Taking over for Tamoo as the girly looking mod.

    NB4 guessing tornadus donk
    Reshiphlosion likes this.
  7. pika1234

    pika1234 New Member

    Why didn't you include Skyla in any of your lists? I've been going with the thought that it's almost always a 2-of in every deck. Considering it can get you that last catcher/candy/etc. you need to win the game as that's usually why we play Cheren. Drawing 3 cards might be inferior to picking that 1 card you need. It also pretty much makes garbodor a real force to reckon with.

    Great read nonetheless. It really broadened my perspective on the format.
  8. TechnoLegend

    TechnoLegend Active Member

    Esa, great article and thanks for the call out!

    I really like the consistancy of the deck lists,

    In your Landorus.Mewtwo.Garbodor deck, why do you feel the need to run a 4-4 garbodor line? 3-2 or 3-3 would work similarly well and have less dead weight if Garbodor gives you no support in certain situations. Also when i played Garbodor/Terrakion/Mewtwo i always loved haveing a few copies of Energy switch because alot of times my energy would get stuck on a garbodor forever if i had to use an exp share on it. What do you think about a 3-3 Garbodor line and add 2 energy switch?

    Im assuming the Landorus EX / Mewtwo EX deck is trying to win before a late game happends, running 4 N could possibly hurt you considering you will prb be at 2 prizes left most of the time because of the prize trade.

    Im also interested in the lack of skyla especially in the Landorus/Garchomp deck, rarecandys are really the only thing you cant search for. Then agian i could see it limiting your draw to much and gabite is just to good as it is.

    Thanks again for spending all the time alot of us cant, testing, testing and retesting and once agian providing the UNDERGROUND community with the results!
  9. slouboff

    slouboff Member

    Great article Esa but I'm surprised you didn't talk about Darkrai Ex/Landorus Ex deck, the same kind of deck you already talked about in your Eye of Japan article. I know Ether is not released yet but don't you think the deck could be a serious contender ?
  10. DrMime

    DrMime Grand Poo-Bah

    ^^ I'm interested in this too. In my testing so far, Darkrai/Sableye/Landorus is completely schizophrenic--it can't figure out whether it wants to start with Landorus or Sableye. What do you think?
  11. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    This was a perfectly timed article Esa! I've never been much of a "mono-fighting" player because... well... I like my decks to be fun to play :p But in testing for the upcoming format (and preparing for an article I'm writing), I really appreciate the in-depth look at the deck type I'm least familiar with! It's nice to see that the lists I've been testing with are on-track as far as certain tech choices go. Something I'd been worrying about with this new metagame :)

    I'll parrot the Garbodor comment. Great deck, but 4-4 is pretty heavy. As is 8 tools. The deck doesn't HAVE to become 1/4 dead weight when playing a non-ability matchup.

    Also, my Landorus/Garchomp list has been running 2 Exp. Share and 2 Energy Switch with a couple Water energies for both Landorus' off-colour (allowing you to Exp. Share the water to a benched Garchomp after a Land's Judgement) and of course Dragonblade. My Item lines are a bit different as well, to support the alternate focus and potential for Energy Switch antics. But I haven't really tested Max Potion as an option. I think it's amazing, but how important would you say Max Potion is to the deck? How often is it your game-winning card?

    Also, I think I've made the same deck choice too :p
    TechnoLegend likes this.
  12. Adam

    Adam Noice bruv, innit.

    Thanks for the heads up, I missed those. Should be fixed now!
  13. badganondorf

    badganondorf Active Member

    sibon: Thanks a lot! Haha, you're correct, 10,000 is SO yesterday.

    darkraiguy: Great that you liked it, Garchomp/Landorus EX is really a fun deck. Ahh, yes, back in the day when I first started writing article about Pokémon TCG in English I kept on making the same mistake. Thanks for the catch, I'll try to be more careful with it the next time!

    cabd: Exactly!

    pika1234&TechnoLegend: I have found myself in trouble with Skyla in decks that don't run Sableye. The reason for this is that Skyla is the one supporter you use in your turn. The format is so extremely fast that in most decks, I haven't simply found time to use Skyla. Even if I have time, Skyla may be my only draw supporter in my hand, which then ruins the following turns. Also, the reason why I didn't run Skyla in Garbodor was the very philosphy of the deck. Crawdaunt noted the heavy line of Garbodors and Trubbishes and Tools. With heavy lines like that direct draw supporters are superior to Skyla-like cards. HOWEVER, if you decide to drop the Garbodor to 3-3 or even 2-2, then Skyla gets a lot better, because you need to search for those cards and you can't rely on just drawing into them with your draw supporters.

    TechnoLegend: The reasoning behind other draw supporters over Skyla is the same in Landorus/Garchomp as in the Garbodor variant. As you can see, all the decklists in this article are very consistent, which is what I liked to emphasize. Also, the Garchomp decks doesn't usually need more than just one Candy per game since Gabite pretty much set-ups all the Garchomps necessary for the game.

    slouboff &DrMime: Darkrai EX and Landorus EX has no kind of synergy between them since there is no Ether. Ether makes or breaks the deck and in this case it breaks it. I don't believe the deck will be serious contender until Ether is released, because of few reasons.

    1) No Ether acceleration
    2) Even Blend Energy doesn't work with those two
    3) You can't use Energy Switch to move around Prism energy, so you're pretty much stuck what you use

    So, yeah, sadly it's unplayable at the moment. Or maybe saying unplayable is overreacting. It's not tier1 level, but it may have some ok match-ups. However, there are decks that do the same job as Landorus EX/Darkrai EX but a lot better than Landorus EX/Darkrai EX.

    Crawdaunt: I think Max Potion is game-winning card in 15% of games, but it gives me a feel of security, because I know my Landorus EX will be there at least the one extra turn. I completely understand the focus on energy manipulation, but I believe that the increase of Tool Scrappers will tore down the Exp. Share strategy of every deck. However, I haven't tried the energy manipulation approach, so I don't know how well it runs compared to this version, I guess I have to find out!

    And I approve of your deck choice, lol.


    Thanks for the great questions and comments once again - there has been great improvement in the discussion level the past months! Keep it going.
  14. Ichtis

    Ichtis New Member

    Hey Esa,
    thank you for an other great article, i hope you'll writing two per month again.
    I'm really excited to read more from you, especially over Ditto.

    Best regards from Germany

    Ichtis
  15. daGlaceon

    daGlaceon Still Can't See

    Word count of 9,999? Awwww yeah.

    But I highly doubt Eelektrik will be the metagame by the time Cities start.
    coolestman22 likes this.
  16. TomTitTot

    TomTitTot New Member

    Esa, first of all, thanks for the article.

    Secondly, I still don't buy Ditto, and I think we'll see why it's not a good play come tournaments where it's legal. Hammerhead hits for weakness, which makes it sixty damage, making your Ditto utterly useless sitting there with 10HP left, and essentially a free prize for your opponent. You can't even Transform it into Tynamo. At that point, I think it becomes clear what a serious liability Ditto is.

    I could be missing something about Ditto, mind you. Compared with you, I am very much a noob player. :)
    tokyovampire likes this.
  17. coolestman22

    coolestman22 Now Has Techron

    I'm not convinced Terrakion EX is the most used Fighting Pokemon in BW-DRX. I think a lot more people played Terrakion NVI, just look at how well decks like Darkrai/Terrakion did at Regionals.
  18. tokyovampire

    tokyovampire Starpower!

    Someone is playing Empoleon next format :D If your worst matchup is against Eels I am going to guess Empoleon/Accelgor. I personally would play Empoleon/Landorus EX though since it improves the Eel Matchup to 50/50 depending on your start. Anyway, fantastic article and I agree with your card choices a lot. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to play this format due to Landorus EX giving me problem, and this article gave me serveral new things to test. :D
  19. coolestman22

    coolestman22 Now Has Techron

    No. I'm not. Stop making assumptions. If you want to see why I'm backing up Terrakion NVI, read my Regionals report.
  20. lucarioAdventure1

    lucarioAdventure1 i swear on me mum

    Why are you being defensive o_O it was a remark with a bit of reasoning and you reacted in an odd fashion.

    Also nice job once again Esa :)