Top Crop – The Best Decks Heading into the Fall Season

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by JayHornung, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

  2. daGlaceon

    daGlaceon Still Can't See

    You cut Drifblim PB from Genesect because it's better with Enhanced... but you don't run Enhanced? How do you get energies in the discard? Pray they discard them?
    Adam and JR_nathan like this.
  3. Pokepower22

    Pokepower22 2012 Senior UK Nats Winner, Masters Regs Win!

    Nice article, It does seem that it would be harder to get a Drifblim DRX to get set up without the Enhanced though.
  4. thematteo0

    thematteo0 The quintessentially British gentleman.


    If you started attacking in the late game with Drifblim DRX then they would probably have plenty in the discard which is its main time of use anyway, but if you are only attacking with Drifblim DRX in the mid-late it begs the question why would you run a line as thick as 3-3? A 2-2 line would surely be fine for an attacker that is match-up specific and only used in the late game.

    For this reason I would probably recommend dropping the line to 2/2 or in the best scenario running a 3/2/1 split of Drifblim's I think (with two DRX and one PLB) and an Enhanced Hammer too if there is room for one. A little thing I really like about Drifblim PLB is that it has free retreat unlike the one retreat cost Drifblim DRX, it might not seem like much but without running any Skyarrow Bridge its nice to have something to promote when the opponent takes a KO.

    Of course versus decks like Blastoise BCR you wouldn't necessarily want to bench a Drifloon at any point in the game but with a thick count of three in the deck there is a reasonable chance that you could be forced to start lone Drifloon some games, so having the option to search for a Drifblim with free retreat is great in a deck where every Grass Energy is precious and where you don't want to be wasting Float Stones.
  5. daGlaceon

    daGlaceon Still Can't See

    But even Jay said Genesects problem is being slightly slow. Another late game attacker is unecessary if there is no laye game.
  6. IronNinja_6

    IronNinja_6 Waiting for the first Poison Legendary

    Nice article! On the question of your Tool Drop deck, have you play-tested it before? I'm new with the deck but I want to play it; however my list differs slightly from yours because I run a Mime, 2-2 Masquerain, 2 DCE (for Sigilyph) and a Tool Scrapper. I've only gotten to play a few games with it so I was just wondering how yours has held up in the various match-ups. Thanks! :D
  7. kittelsonburke

    kittelsonburke New Member

    Great article! (as usual) What are your thoughts on Suicune/Terrakion? In your opinion, do you think if played in the right environment that it could have a chance?
  8. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Kittelsonburke: Its 100% an antimeta deck it's going to do well in a Plasma abased field, but it will struggle in a Darkrai/Garbardor format.

    Iron: I never like Tool Scrapper in the deck, I've gone back and fourth on DCE but I currently don't run them, 2-2 Masquerain is more space than I want to devote...but 2-2 is what my friend runs, and the opponent can't really take the time to snipe if your 1HKOing them they basically have to 1HKO the Trubbishes.

    DaGlaceon: Perhaps I'm old fashioned, but I get energy in the discard pile by knocking Pokemon out :) The deck should be able to take the first few prizes, but they get in trouble if Plasma get a head of them energy attachments.

    PokePower: I agree I'm trying to fit 1 in now, but I have a hard time devoting 2 spots if Darkrai/Garbardor is a big deck.

    thematteo0: I agree, it really depends on heavy you think Plasma is going to be played.
  9. Arianne

    Arianne Member

    Nice article Jay. I have a question about Tropical Beach -- I have 2 juniors playing competively and cannot afford to get Tropical Beach. It seems like many of the top decks this season have TB in their lists. Is there a substitute that would give the necessary draw power? They both really want to play Blastoise and Genesect of course.
    thanks in advance
  10. Adam

    Adam Noice bruv, innit.

    Arianne typically I don't think there is any substitute and they'd be better off playing a deck that doesn't need it, but in the Juniors Division they might be able to get away without it. I'm not sure though... we'll see what Jay thinks.

    JayHornung I'm thinking of picking up Trubbish to play at Regionals since it looks fairly inexpensive and doesn't need Beach... but I'm wondering if there is a chance it would be better with Beach since you can't attack on turn 1. Any thoughts on that?
  11. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Arianne: Honestly no....The fact you can search for T1 with Skyla and fill your hand back up to 7 and than its an on field counter to N makes the card better than any other supporter you could think of running over it. I honestly wouldn't touch Blastoise with less than 4 Beach (3 is mandatory imo) and Virizion/Genesect you could probably play without Beach, but if you watched Henrys Top 4 game he lost because he didn't have it in play. Had he been able to Beach the turn after the N he might have won.

    A couple of points I would like to make...

    -Tropical Beach is extremely good for the game right now as it is the only thing that keeps Stage 2 decks even remotely playable...but it's price tag isn't. The card should have been a Worlds promo and than mass released as a league promo imo.

    -You don't have to have Tropical Beach to do well...simply it stops you from playing certain decks. The decks with Tropical Beach aren't instantly better! At the risk of sounding like I'm bragging between Worlds 2011 and Worlds 2012 I ended up with 12 Tropical Beach (I've sold a few though!). The only tournaments I played them in were a couple of Cities with Blastoise last year and 1 Regionals I played 3 in Klinklang. I didn't touch them outside of those few tournaments and I would like to think I did alright. I just felt other decks were better/more my playstyle. Even now I lean more towards Plasma or Darkrai than I do Blastoise or Virizion/Genesect.

    Lastly if you want to do well don't play a deck you don't have the cards for! If they want to play Blastoise at a local BRs or leagues or something I say go for it, but I certainly wouldn't want to play them at Regionals. Lets jump back to 2006 when I wanted to be like Pokemon role models like Chris Fulop and play LBS (Blastoise of its day). Ironically I had all of the cards besides 1 Latias Star...I figured whatever it wouldn't make that big of a difference so I played the deck anyways and end up going 3-5. Not having the 1 card put me as a huge underdog in mirror and many of my other match ups were at least 10%-20% worse...just not having 1 card can make a huge difference!

    Adam: I through that idea around as well after seeing Yamato play it...but I don't like it. The deck is a control deck and should be played as such (something I feel a lot of people miss). Playing Dowsing Machine my opponent is going to get N'd at 3 prizes, 2 prizes and 1 prizes...the last thing I want to do is give them a situation where they can draw out of it. Also the deck is very slow I really don't want to give faster decks in the format a quicker way to set up. Lastly the deck has a solid T1 attack with Junk Hunt....IDK just my thoughts, but I'm curious as to what some of the other writers thinks about this. I'm sure the deck is going to be heavily discussed leading up to Regionals.
  12. Adam

    Adam Noice bruv, innit.

    JayHornung sorry for the confusion, I meant Trubbish/Sigilyph (not Darkrai/Garbodor).
  13. thematteo0

    thematteo0 The quintessentially British gentleman.

    I think Adam was talking about Tool Drop (Trubbish) rather than Darkrai EX-Garbodor DRX.

    EDIT: Ninja'd by Adam
  14. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Adam, I've been playing a Tool Drop list with 2 Sableye and 2 Dark, 5 Psychic 2 E Search, 2 Enhanced. Runs as well as it normally would, but in return you get mid-game options when you get Scrappered and it hurts, or you can double Enhanced and Catcher to stall. You still need to drop a T1 Energy on Trubbish to threaten the T2 attack, so Sableye is solely for mid-game. But it works quite well in giving the deck options to come back from a slower start. If you can't OHKO, why not Junk Hunt!?

    p.s. JayHornung thoughts on Sableye in Tool Drop? Liking it very much so far, recommend trying it out.
  15. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Adam: My bad...Um I like it in the deck, but I don't want to play Skyla. I think the deck burns through itself just fine without the card.[DOUBLEPOST=1378486348][/DOUBLEPOST]Crawdaunt...I like the idea, but where did you find the room?
  16. kittelsonburke

    kittelsonburke New Member

    Wow, glad to see someone else is using Sableye in Tool Drop. I'd like to see your list
  17. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Pokemon - 12
    4 Trubbish PLS 65
    4 Sigilyph PLB
    1 Surskit PLB
    1 Masquerain PLB
    2 Sableye DEX
    Trainers - 38
    4 N
    4 Professor Juniper
    3 Bicycle
    2 Colress
    1 Random Receiver
    4 Exp Share
    4 Float Stone
    3 Silver Bangle
    3 Silver Mirror
    0 Eviolite
    4 Level Ball
    2 Pokemon Catcher
    2 Energy Search
    1 Super Rod
    1 Tool Scrapper
    1 Dowsing Machine
    2 Enhanced Hammer
    Energy - 7
    5 Psychic
    2 Dark
    Is my current list. It's got fewer supporters than I want, and fewer Catchers than I want. But both of these things ought to matter less in a best 2/3 format (i.e. random dead start and not having that game-winning catcher) I definitely want 3rd Catcher back, not sure what I'd drop though. But it's not something I'm comfortable with in my testing.
    And again, you don't really want to attach to Sableye early, because if you do, they can play around you by not attacking Sableye and reducing you to attacking on Turn 3 at the earliest. And this just gives them time to play around Exp. Shares and such. So only rely on Sableye in the mid-game when you're dead and need anything you can get to save you. It's definitely a problem to consider though regarding Sableye's place in the deck...
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  18. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Catcher is less important IMO in a deck thats basically says "I one shot whatever you throw up" The 3rd catcher is less needed and more insurance against having to discard one early
  19. Crawdaunt

    Crawdaunt Active Member

    Yeah, which is why it's what was cut. But playing games, it's a noticeable inconvenience not being able to target their setup at leisure. The tough part is teasing out whether that inconvenience costs games that would otherwise be saved. That whole "most effective use of deck space" kinda thing.
  20. JayHornung

    JayHornung Active Member

    Why play 2 Enhanced Hammer, but only 3 Mirror?...The Mirror is going to win you more Plasma games than the Enhanced.