Rogue Tornadus EX, Umbreon PLF

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by ChaoticKinesis, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. This is the competitive deck thread for Tornadus EX/Umbreon in the NXD-on format. The basic strategy of the deck is to open with Tornadus EX and to use Umbreon and Aspertia City Gym to provide a massive HP boost. Thundurus EX is used to retrieve energy later in the game and can serve along with Glaceon as a secondary attacker to prime them for KO with Tornadus. Glaceon is also used for free retreat and Leafeon as a potential late game attacker.

    [Spoiler=Click here to show list]
    Pokemon-15
    4 Tornadus EX PLF
    4 Eevee
    3 Umbreon PLF
    1 Glaceon PLF
    1 Leafeon PLF
    2 Thundurus EX

    Trainers-34
    4 Professor Juniper
    3 N
    3 Skyla
    2 Shadow Triad
    1 Colress

    3 Colress Machine
    2 Level Ball
    3 Team Plasma Ball
    3 Pokemon Catcher
    1 Scramble Switch
    2 Switch
    2 Tool Scrapper
    1 Max Potion

    2 Eviolite

    2 Aspertia City Gym

    Energy-11
    4 Plasma Energy
    3 Blend WLFM
    4 DCE
    [/Spoiler]

    I've had fairly good success with this list on PTCGO and would like to see if any improvements can be made.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  2. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    1. What are you shadow Triading for?
    2. Why Glaceon?
    3. Should probably have a second Leafeon hes too good.
    4. What do you do when you whiff colress machines?
  3. 1. With the right hand Shadow Triad may be used on turn 1 for a second Colress Machine to hit for 120. Alternately, it can be used to get back Plasma Energy, Plasma Ball, or Pokemon that was Junipered away. In testing, I've almost never had a scenario where I drew it and did not want to play it.
    2. Glaceon provides free retreat and is a decent attacker. In the event that Tornadus has 2 Plasma and a DCE, hitting for 120, he can hit for 60 to prime any EX for a next turn KO. There have been enough scenarios where I wanted to play down Glaceon before Umbreon for me to consider him to be important to the deck.
    3. Oddly enough, Leafeon has not proven all that useful in most games.
    4. Not entirely sure what you're asking. I have not found energy acceleration to be much of a problem to get off a T1/T2 attack. If it does not work out, then the active Tornadus will usually have around 240 HP and can use Windfall, while charging up a 2nd one on the bench. I'm not usually aiming for 4 Plasma on one Tornadus because that makes players ready to sacrifice a lot to knock him out, since that would be practically game-ending for me. In fact, once I played a game where all three Colress Machines were prized and still managed to win.
  4. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    The answers to these questions baffle me.

    1. Wouldn't you rather juniper into the Colress Machine AND draw multiple cards?
    2. I don't like Glaceon, but that is personal preference.
    3. You must be doing it wrong, Leafeon is single handedly one of the best eeveelutions right now.
    4. Just seems like if you don't get a fast start that you will be behind the majority of the time.

  5. 1. That's why I said with the right hand, not implying it's something I would always want to do. There are plenty of times where the Juniper is better but there have been times when it was not. In general, I try to save the Triads for Plasma Energy when it makes sense to do so.
    2. I haven't liked Glaceon in other decks but he works very well here.
    3. I agree that Leafeon is good but more often than not I would rather be attacking with Tornadus, making Leafeon nothing more than catcher bait. In my experience it has been quite rare for there to be enough energy out to make Leafeon's attack worth it, where they cannot go for a OHKO on the next turn.
    4. This deck has been better than any other I've used in catching up when it does suffer from a slow start, which I have not found to be all that common. I've played nearly 40 games with it and do not feel I have been at much of a disadvantage against some of the faster decks like TDK. I'm not completely opposed to adding more draw support but am not sure what I would cut for it. Also, I noticed that I accidentally put 3 Bianca instead of 3 Skyla in the deck list, so perhaps that better answers the question regarding the whiffed Colress Machine.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  6. Rodan68

    Rodan68 New Member

    How does it do against a sableye with an enhanced hammer? Maybe drop the blend and glaceon and use some lightning energy.
  7. Wrags23

    Wrags23 Feeling... rogue.

    Can someone please change the spelling in the thread name from "Umreon" to Umbreon... it seriously bugs me every time I see it.
  8. That's definitely one of the harder things to deal with, but I have only faced it a couple times with this deck so I can't really say if my handling of it was based on luck or consistency. However I did find the combination of Thundurus/Shadow Triad for energy retrieval, along with N and catcher stalling has usually been sufficient to deal with it. With that said, obviously not having the necessary cards at that moment can be pretty devastating. Luckily Tornadus' windfall really helps here.

    I have considered replacing blend with lightning and even dropping Glaceon, but the reality is that he has won me more games than I would have ever expected.



    How embarrassing... I fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  9. Wrags23

    Wrags23 Feeling... rogue.

    In terms of dealing with Enhanced Hammer, Plasma does it. Yes, it is a huge hindrance to the deck, but given the fact that most Darkrai decks (or any decks) will almost never run more than 2 Enhanced Hammer, you can still survive long enough to make things a little tougher on them.
  10. Rodan68

    Rodan68 New Member

    Been testing this deck. One Deoxys Ex seems to help one hit KO Kyurems, Drifblims and other 100 and 130 HP pokemon. I also like Leafeon to surprise KO Keldeos. It's a fun deck but still only winning about 50%.
    JAM likes this.
  11. My win ratio with this deck has been more like 2:1. Also, I'm not sure how you're playing it but very rarely do I not manage to hit for 120 with 2 plasma on Tornadus by T2/3, and I generally find that even 3 plasma on Tornadus is fairly safe as long as he has a decent HP boost and I'm well set up, with Glaceon out. I'm usually iffy about placing all 4 onto one though, unless I feel confident I'll be able to play a Scramble Switch or win quickly.

    To be honest, I'm not really sure how I would fit Deoxys onto the bench. Mid-game I'm usually looking to have a Tornadus in the active spot with 1 more on the bench, 2 Umbreon, Glaceon, and Thundurus.
  12. TheAllyKat

    TheAllyKat Member

    I do heart this combination of Tornadus-EX (Therian Form) and Umbreon (Plasma) however in the past two weeks my win ratio took a sky dive as more decks tech'd with anti-Special Energy cards in my area. I would like to point out in the version of my deck: I tech for Darkrai-EX-Garbodor by running a single Basic energy type and x4 Plasma Energy (no other special energy in the deck.) I still found that either Drifblim or Enhanced Hammer or both are common techs in the decks that I have been facing in the past two weeks.

    I really, really want the Tornadus-EX (Therian Form) and Umbreon (Plasma) cause its such a fun win (and Umbreon is my favorite Pokémon.) Still, I shifted from comparing my results in single eliminations to best of out 3 matches to find way less consistency in the win. This is a result of novelty being the reason why it was winning. (This was my experience as of late.)

    I agree. The Leafeon was dead weight. (I ran a second Glaceon to avoid no access when prize'd.)

    My experience with Thurdurus-EX (Therian Form), even with Porygon-Z and MaxPotion, was still less than desirable in combination. The Enhanced Hammer is directly the reason. If you are running Blend and Prisms you can be so in the hole when paired against Darkrai-EX-Garbodor. The second you drop a Team Plasma Pokémon: they are thinking Junk Hunt/Enhanced Hammer.

    The bench becomes really heavy but I found a lot of success bring this deck into late game with a combination of Mr. Mime (Bench Barrier) and Colress.
  13. I'm confused by this, are you saying you run a similar deck with Tornadus EX as the main attacker without using double colorless energy? That sounds like it would be too slow. Despite the heavy reliance on special energy, I do not find Junk Hunt/Enhanced Hammer to be all that effective against this deck. In fact, I have a significantly higher win ratio against Darkrai variants than any other Tier 1 deck, to the point where I feel this deck is highly favored in that matchup.

    A much bigger problem I have found lately is Thundurus EX in TDK, which has made me want to experiment with switching Aspertia City Gym to Plasma Frigate, or possibly replacing the Eviolites for 2/2 on the stadiums. Another problem is the recent prevalence of decks that have a strong anti-Plasma focus.

    When you say you run only basic energy besides Plasma, which are you running and who are your secondary attackers?

    With regard to Leafeon: I don't think it's dead weight, but usually not something I want to bring out unless it's late in the game or I'm playing against certain decks. It's an excellent tech against Blastoise decks or anything that runs Keldeo, since it's usually not hard to get a OHKO. In general, though, it's usually only evolved from my 4th Eevee and almost never earlier.
  14. TheAllyKat

    TheAllyKat Member

    I have been playing variants of this decade since stepping into the metagame. Mind you, my experience within the metagame is still in its infant stage so a lot of plays are surprising me that likely you are more used to dealing with. The second I saw Umbreon, I knew I had to make a deck with it. I have even run the Raticates which I am now reconsidering since I never seen that Stadium card you have been using.

    Yes, the truth is that this has never slowed me down. In fact, it helps tech against Darkrai-EX/Garbodor a lot because in my game 2/3's way too many occurrences of Skyla for Enhanced Hammer.

    You must be encountering that less than me. Ever since the Klaczynski Open, I have been facing more Enhanced Hammers and Drifblim (anti-Special Energy) finding there way into all kinds of decks. This anti-Plasma is going to be strong until Gothitelle lock and Kalos Region hits the game.

    I have tried a handful of Team Plasma Pokémon to try and fit this bill. Articuno-EX was nice until Virizion-EX started popping up everywhere. I had some limited success with Dialga-EX by milling (especially on turns you hit Supporters.) Silver Mirrors are a pain on turns in which a Tool Scrapper is not near by. I have tried non-Team Plasma Pokémon to try to tech for Mirrors such as Darkrai-EX and Keldo-EX (the safety of having basic energy allowing Umbreon or Glaceon has won me the occasional game.)

    Agreed. I am considering at this point swapping out the 3rd Eevee-ution for the Espeon from Dark Explorers for the Special Condition shielding.[DOUBLEPOST=1379867932][/DOUBLEPOST]I was also considering going a completely different route but I do not have the cards for it yet... Fire Energy focusing on Victini's and Entei's energy acceleration.
  15. galldrin

    galldrin Poke-dad

    Just in case you aren't aware, Espeon DEX's ability reads "Prevent all effects of your opponent's attacks, except damage, done to each of your Pokenon that has any Energy attached to it." So what this means is that it only stops effects of Attacks. Right now there aren't very many Pokemon in use that add Special Conditions through attacks. This ability will have no effect against a Hypnotoxic Laser because it is not an attack. However, it WOULD block the energy discarding part of an attack like the one from Garchomp's Mach Cut.
  16. TheAllyKat

    TheAllyKat Member

    You are very much correct. This much I have learned over the past few days.
  17. I don't see the value in this at all. The HP boost provided by Umbreon PLF is very important for this deck because it prevents decks that aim to OHKO the opponent's EXs from doing so against Tornadus, while those that 2HKO often also require an extra attack. Adding more Eeveelutions will only take away that consistency.
  18. TheAllyKat

    TheAllyKat Member

    Handful of tournaments later... totally hear you!
  19. Fayt13

    Fayt13 New Member

    So how has this deck done against Garbodor so far in your experience?

    EDIT: Nvm, found my answer I think. Better question would be how this deck is dealing with Plasma hate
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  20. public_toilet

    public_toilet Seriously Likeable here guys, Just sayin.

    Yay an Umbreon deck!

    Unfortunately the Darkrai/Garbodor matchup is horrible.