“Victory Road” – The Journey to Finalizing Plasma and Trevenant Lists for States

Discussion in 'UG Article Talk' started by HenryP, Feb 27, 2014.

  1. HenryP

    HenryP Member

  2. Vysekun

    Vysekun The Ninetales and the Grapes

    Very interesting that you decided to cut Dusknoir. I like the idea since Trevs are really not difficult to stream (compared to goth), I feel like you can just win the prize trade/calculate having poison ko's come back into your turn. Interesting to see your take vs @Ruiner 's (Fulop's) take.

    Going the Flareon route + Catcher to deal with counters (Virizion/Keldeo) seems like a very elegant solution. I've also considered 1/1 Ninetales + Cassius. I recently got to thinking Garbodor was the way to go (since I play Dusknoir), But I find your list to be quite appealing. I feel like dropping Dusknoir means dropping the 'gg game state' to a degree, but gives you realistic matchups against decks like Genesect.

    Interesting read, Good stuff.
  3. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    For the most part, the ability to stream Trevenant's makes no Duskoir more feasable. With Gothitelle you used the constant lock to make sure you didnt run out of Goths, but its much easier to just take knock outs and trade KOs now, especially with Catcher. Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad you enjoyed it!
    Vysekun likes this.
  4. DrMime

    DrMime Grand Poo-Bah

    I really like all these Fairy toolbox decks, but as I test, I wonder if I'm skilled enough to play any of them!
    I always seem to end up in the same, unfavorable prize trade against Yeti. I can't get Thundurus active with energy until at least turn 2 (because Fairy runs no Switch), and so my Yeti opponent always takes their first prizes with Lugia. I can often OHKO counter with a 4-energy Thundurus, but my Yeti opponent will then counter that with Deoxys and wipe all my energy off the board. I feel like I need a better (cheaper) Lightning attacker than Thundurus. Plasma Rotom?
  5. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    They would have to have a lot a luck to get all of those out so quickly, though. A fully powered Lugia with a Prism, Colress Machine and Muscle Band in hand or a way to get them for Deoxys next turn? I've found Thundurus EX to be a good enough counter to Lugia, but you can surely try out different attackers. Maybe try a Double Colorless to help with Thundurus, you can start using Raiden Knuckle sooner and conserve extra energy on the bench to respond. Toolbox decks like this have a lot of room for customization based on what you find your worse matchups to be and what you expect to run into at events, the options I listed in the article only graze the surface of what you could put the the deck and make work I'm sure.
  6. DrMime

    DrMime Grand Poo-Bah

    Mmm, I dunno. A turn 3 Lugia KO on my active Thundurus has seemed pretty easy. You are right that they would need Prism & Muscle Band in hand turn 4; but they could Colress Machine to Deoxys any turn before that. I'll do more testing, but in my hands so far, Yeti has access to 7 energy, 5 pokes and 2 Muscle Bands before Toolbox can get more than 5 energy out.

    DCE is a neat idea though, would work w/ Palkia & Yveltal too. I have also been walling with Sigilyph/Suicune (seems a common idea in Palkia Strafing decks), and that works okay.
  7. vamprillo

    vamprillo New Member

    Obviously Yveltal is a bit more dominant than Mewtwo (by 20 dmg)...but I'm also finding it hard to justify buying that yveltal at the moment when I know that in a matter of like 3 weeks they will be out in tins! So for my upcoming states, do you think 1-2 Mewtwo EX (with the recent inclusion of muscle band) instead of Yveltal EX, would still be a solid tech into a version of this deck?
  8. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    @DrMime Yeti is definitely one of your tougher matchups, but still very reasonable. In my testing it's about 50/50, but I've seen a lot of the issues you brought up

    @vamprillo I would rather replace it with Cobalion LTR to help cover fairy weakness as well as counter your opponent loading energy on an attacker, but Mewtwo EX could work as well.
  9. AndrewMenza

    AndrewMenza Member

    In Trevenant/Accelgor, you say muscle band is a great asset to the deck and you would want more. What does it help against? You already have silver bangle for EXs, so muscle band would really help only against non EXs (except when attached to Mew EX). What non EXs are there that the extra 20 damage is crucial? Or is it very crucial that you can get the extra damage when attacking with Mew EX? Also I want to know why does Trevenant being easier to stream make Dusknoir less necessary?
  10. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    Muscle Band is another denomination for damage output and getting perfect KOs. Two consecutive Muscle Band Deck and Cover's will be perfect math to KO an 180 HP Pokemon going back into your turn. Trevenant being easier to stream means you can let your opponent have a turn to attack without worrying about not having another one ready to send up if your opponent knocks it out. With Gothitelle you needed to devote more resources to getting out multiple Gothitelles and sometimes you would need to use Dusknoir to buy yourself a few turns to make sure you were all set up. With Trevenant you don't have to worry as much about not having another one because it's so easy to search out and set up.
    Vysekun likes this.
  11. jbcheshire

    jbcheshire Member

    Great article, and I like the Plasma/Fairy Toolbox idea. I've been intrigued by that concept and this gives me a good starting point for checking it out..
    BTW, I think I may have played against you the other day on TCG online. You were using your Trevenant deck and I had a VirGen deck. That was a fun game...
  12. AndrewMenza

    AndrewMenza Member

    You mentioned psychic energy in the trevenant/accelgor section. I imagine that plasma, despite the silver mirror, could be problematic because if they send up snorlax, you can't retreat and therefore can't attack, and they can't really do anything because they can't touch trevenant and cannot use tool scrapper, so the matchup will almost certainly end in a tie. Do you think this concern is big enough to warrant the addition of psychic energy? And if so, how many?
  13. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    @jbcheshire It must have been someone else, I don't use PTCGO haha

    @AndrewMenza I think Pokemon Catcher does a good job of preventing that from happening. If anything I would add another Catcher and/or a Switch/Escape Rope if you're worried about that.
  14. AndrewMenza

    AndrewMenza Member

    Yeah I completely forgot about catcher when making that post. But you only have 3 catchers 4 if you use dowsing machine. With 4 catchers you should get an average of 2 heads per game. Catcher doesn't solve the problem of snorlax. When you knock something out it will come right back up. Do you think that those 4 catcher flips will enough?
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  15. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    Switch will help, because you can attack it with an Accelgor and let it die from poison under trainer lock.
  16. Milky

    Milky Watercooling Veteran

    Loved the article. I think Aromatisse/Plasma is very strong. But I strongly dislike the inclusion of Kyurem in the deck. I feel that for a water attacker, Keldeo would be preferred and that a Hammerhead start is stronger than a frost spear start in the event of not getting thundurus up.

    3 Thundurus is sound though, because if you don't start with it there is no possible way of T1 Thundurus if you go second due to no switch,
  17. HenryP

    HenryP Member

    Thanks! I definetly agree that it's a great deck, I actually made that same chamge while testing this weekend haha. I originally had Kyurem in there to be another Plasma Pokemon, a non ex for strafe and just in general, and cover the the water weaknesses; but overall I found Keldeo EX to work much better and it works very nicely with Aromatisse and Fairy Gardens for getting out of Parylyze or Sleep.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  18. Milky

    Milky Watercooling Veteran

    Yeah, I tested this deck a little bit and had no problems getting out a Plasma pokemon for knuckle, usually Genesect EX. In terms of strafe, I usually preferred to use Snorlax or a spare Spritzee as Blastoise/Emboar players don't run catcher.
  19. AndrewMenza

    AndrewMenza Member

    You only have 1 mew EX in the final trevenant list. Is this a result of a cut you needed to make or do you believe only 1 mew is necessary?