Tier 1 Virizion EX, Genesect EX

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Serperior, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. JR_nathan

    JR_nathan Mr.3 Rings Himself


    I don't intend on arguing theorymon vs. theorymon any longer, so I'm going to lay down the hard facts:

    TDK has seen far more competitive experience than VirGen (3 months to be exact) which as baby_mario said, means it's lists will adapt and mature faster than VirGen who hasn't even seen a BR yet.

    TDK is a fast deck. Virizion/Genesect, not so much. When it comes down to who starts (Kyurem vs. Genesect) it won't matter if you have Colress Machine or Plasma Badge. TDK will, for the most part, strike first and strike hard. There is also a big difference between streaming Kyurems and streaming Genesects. While TDK can pop out Kyurems all day, VirGen has trouble getting the first Genesect out of the gate. Twist my words as you may, but anyone who touched TDK knows that it doesn't matter if one or two Kyurems go down, as long as there enough energy around, there will be a third. As for Genesects, you're automatically put in a win or lose situation after the second one is KO'ed, being that he is 2 prizes when Kyurem is only 1.

    Any deck can counter any deck with the right cards, but at the end of the day it all comes down to general deck vs. general deck. It just so happens that a general TDK deck has an advantage over a general Virizion/Genesect deck in the form of speed, both in early game and during recuperation (when one of the main attackers is KO'ed).

    In the case of VirGen being a Tier 1 deck, we could argue about this topic all day, but until it earns that title, I my as well consider it a Tier 3 deck that is expected to be overplayed and -already is- overhyped.

    (Oh, and just in case you want to hector me about making up all this out crap out of nowhere, I've also done a little testing of my own this past summer: 3 months, +110 games against +10 decks, and still counting.)
    Joai and jeffrey3421 like this.
  2. GreenPepper

    GreenPepper Badly addicted to League of Legends


    Actually, you need Colress Machine and Grass T1, and Grass T2 and G Booster. You don't need Virizion for T2 G Booster.
  3. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Still, the prize trade is big. If we're doing similar scenarios and implying that Genesect goes first, you're still taking 60+ Damage from Kyurem.
  4. infernaperocks

    infernaperocks A Proud Member Of Team Rouge!

    in the same situation there could be something everyone is missing there may be a way to stream genesect and on the other foot of your argument I may as well take it as tier 1 until proved other wise. sure its overhyped and probably overplayed at the start and could be fairly clunky but the first TDK decks could loose to a garbodor landourus deck just because the Garbodor player knew how to play their deck better even though the TDK player had the advantage by type. No i do not want to argue all day so I won't but the fact remains anyone can consider this deck what they want until proved otherwise. I suggest we simply stop arguing and start talking about the deck, and ways to play it. Even if it ends up being tier 3 you still can talk about it like you still talk about Garbodor just because the deck can still work and 200 damage is to good to be overlooked.
  5. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    What is your point here exactly?
  6. infernaperocks

    infernaperocks A Proud Member Of Team Rouge!

    the thing is is that you can take down kyurems with megalo cannon. in the TDK vs VirGen matchupthe VirGen player can stall all day on the deoxys or catcher KOing the keldeos until they are set up. Once set up completely it is hard to loose and in this matchup you have the possible advantage of time by stalling Deoxys and using N.

    (By the way I do have some testing reference of about 50 games of playing with or against the deck. the deck can be slow but from my experience once set up you win 9/10 games.)[DOUBLEPOST=1376846598][/DOUBLEPOST]
    sorry I was answering Nathan. and my point is that no one should jump to conclusion weather it's good or bad and just talk about it ourselves. we could argue all day about it and get us or the deck no where.
  7. supersmarty1234

    supersmarty1234 rotations, designed to make bulk even more useless

    This deck is going to be the new fluffychomp. EVERYONE hypes it to death, they spend a hundred dollars building it, AND THE DECK TURNS OUT TO BE CRAP.

    I have know doubt this is going down the same road, in two months or so, this is going to be a tier three deck about as commonly played as fluffychomp in this format, (meaning it won't be played at all until it gets necessary support a year later).
  8. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Genesect is too good of a card to do that. It just needs a good partner. Heck, even Energy Switch could make this deck tier 2.
    911donkey, Joai, GreenPepper and 3 others like this.
  9. indercarnive

    indercarnive Well-Known Member

    the deck is good. just is immature and not up to all the hype people give it.

    on another point why would plasma run keldeos now. goth is rotated and lasers are not widely used. 3/2 or 4/2 switch/float stone is enough. and if you catcher in the beginning you n me to a 6 card hand, enough to easily hit a switch off of.
  10. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Agreed, but I imagine some people running Keldeo to stream Blizzard Burn KOs.
  11. JR_nathan

    JR_nathan Mr.3 Rings Himself


    And I was answering Vablakes. My stand here is that TDK will have the more favorable matchup against VirGen and that VirGen should not be considered a Tier 1 deck going into Fall BRs because it has yet to prove itself so.

    As for my arguments concerning this thread, I'm not speaking to the general public, but rather to those whom I disagree with and whose disagreements I see fit to argue about. Nothing more and nothing less. If I wanted to "talk" about the deck, I would write an article with a list included and await feedback.
  12. GreenPepper

    GreenPepper Badly addicted to League of Legends

    This deck does not have an assigned tier yet. It is predicted to do well due to it's success in Japan, but we all know by now that is not a satisfactory ground to base an assumption on.
  13. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    It isn't ground at all. Japan has BW-on and all of the lists that did well played Energy Switch.
    GreenPepper likes this.
  14. Joai

    Joai Grinded into Worlds 2011...

    I hope this deck is trash so I don't waste my time and money on it...no access to G-Booster, then what do you do????
  15. supersmarty1234

    supersmarty1234 rotations, designed to make bulk even more useless

    You kinda have a point, but we probably won't get it until February's set, I'm also NOT expecting a Shaymin UL reprint anytime soon
  16. Genesect has an attack called Megalo Cannon that is great.
  17. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    I feel that this kind of attitude is behind a lot of the hate for the deck: it's expensive, I don't have the cards, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeez be bad so I don't feel like I'm missing out by not playing it.

    It's best to leave any kind of emotion/bias behind when testing.

    I dunno, what does any deck do when key component(s) are prized? You learn to do what you can, but you build the deck to minimize the risk of not having G-Booster. It's not like Megalo Cannon sucks as an attack.
  18. Joai

    Joai Grinded into Worlds 2011...

    Hey I agree, but it's like everyone seems to think TDK is done because of this deck...don't get me wrong, I'll try it out eventually, but one attacker bugs me...you could probably get away with not having Virizion in the deck....
  19. infernaperocks

    infernaperocks A Proud Member Of Team Rouge!

    who ever said TDK was done? just because some variants have an advantage doesn't mean TDK is done it's still tier 1.
  20. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    [AGGRESSIVELY TRIES NOT TO MAKE PUN]
    911donkey, Alastair and Vablakes like this.