Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Serperior, Aug 14, 2013.
Blastoise is slow like that too, and it is/was tier 1. Speed isn't the only factor.
I just slapped myself and said profanity towards my screen when I read this. The decks are very different.
Blastoise is a hard to KO stage 2 that sits on the bench a majority of the game and any decent build of the deck is built completely around the T2 Blastoise. It's a deck that can sweep well, and a lot of the time once it starts sweeping it doesn't stop. Most current builds of Genesect rely on a T1 Plasma Badge, Colress Machine, and Grass behind a Virizion start with a Genesect benched to have a good T2. G Booster will give you 1-3 1-shots per game, including the fact that you might not even be able to attack the next turn. Also, Genesect/Virizion has the obstacle of averaging 2 Genesect per game, as it does not have Sableye (or Smeargle when talking about 2012) like Darkrai did in its best days, a deck that is most similar to this one. Coincidentally, Blastoise beats this deck's face in because it is so much more consistent with its OHKOs.
Blastoise and Genesect/Virizion are uncomparable.
Don't get your panties in a wad. I wasn't asking for a deck list. I'm just curious to know what he's doing differently with this deck.
Also I don't know about other areas but in our area people are replacing thier one of Kyurem with a Suicune and sometimes adding a second. this give an out to the VirGen matchup while setting up other OHKO's on the bench.
People never ran 1-of Kyurem (the only kind was Black Kyurem) and people aren't just gonna throw down Suicune (if they play it, it's very techy and not necessarily good) to 3HKO Genesect. You go with BKEX all the way here.
Like I said, I can only speak of the builds in my area and what I see online. I assume I am thinking too hard about the match-up. After hearing it BKEX does seem like a much better answer. I always over think things when weakness/resistance come into play.
I feel like anyone wanting a faster take on the Virizion-based strategies should look to play the version that eschews Genesect and runs Mewtwo, instead; the two also have great synergy together, and Mewtwo gives you the option to attack early in the matchups where that is especially important.
On topic, from my experience, running cards like Plasma Badge and EtherTone in an attempt to turbo into a respectable start is the wrong way to play this deck; it hurts the deck's overall consistency, and Plasma Badge in particular is really only useful turn one. I expect the slower builds to have more success out of the gate.
Yup. I actually think the Blastoise comparison is directionally correct even thought they of course run different strategies. The right VirGen decklist is going to maximize OHKO consistency once set up, not maximize speed. Most of the net decks being shared right now are not built this way.
I don't have the deck down either, still messing with it, but much like you need to rely on Energy Retrievals / SER to stay consistent in Blastoise, I think we'll see strategies like DCE (even without Bouff) to ensure consistency once setup.
3 Genesect EX
3 Virizon EX
2 Victini Ex
2 Shadow Triad
3 Pokemon Catcher
4 Colress Machine
4 Ultra Ball
3 Team Plasma Badge
I've always been a proponent of using Victini ex as a secondary attacker/acceleration. The decks seem solid and the consistency isn't a major problem. I run more energy than most and I might cut down on some with some suggestions. I've won several times at leagues and such with this deck but leagues is really the most competitive environment out there.
-4 Switch, -1 Plasma Badge, + 2 Super Rod, +2 Skyla, +1 SAB.
I never missed Energy switch so much.
I've been playing Non-Ex Non-plasma genesect as one of my non-ex attackers and realized that I would need badge even more with him. Then I realized that he's only great if you have a way to share the energy.
Then I realized I was building this deck wrong. I've just not been competent this format at all.
How has Virizion NVI been testing though?
The card has been pretty lackluster for me. I really only found myself wanting it against Blastoise, and too often, they just had the Catcher or a means to KO the Virizion before the second Leaf Wallop posed a threat.
So far, Bouffalant DRX has proved to be the best 'seventh prize' attacker, in my books.
4 virizion ex
3 genesect ex
2 deoxys ex
1 lugia ex
2 shadow triad
4 team plasma badge
4 colress machine
3 Pokemon catcher
2 ultra ball
2 plasma ball
1 super rod
1 tool scrapper
1 energy search
I think he's been doing the best for me too. I've rarely opened with Tropius but I've gotten some amazing starts with it.[DOUBLEPOST=1377233446][/DOUBLEPOST]
I don't think you need Deoxys. If you are playing Lugia, play G-Scope. It confirms you 6 prizes for Lugia right away.
drop 2 Switch for 2 Skyarrow Bridge.
- 2 Deoxys
- 2 Switch
+ 2 Skyarrow Bridge
+ 1/2 Tool Scrapper
ok first of all i need deoxys for plasma as for G Scope... that totally ruins the point of the deck. Lugia is for victini ex. because of that sky arrow won't work because I can be catcher stalled. I appreciate the help but do not like the ideas. also what I mean about the deoxys is that if I hit a kyurem on the bench for 20 then bydoing 110 i can ko it. also all 170 hp EXs that have been emerald slashed for 60 get koed by a 110 megalo cannon.
Is it me or do I just have a terrible feeling about this deck come BR's.... I feel a plot afoot.
Here's a list I'm running... It kinda plays fast, but I like to take the time to setup just so I can make some more dmg dealers, I personally like the RR, maybe its me and the luck factor but I do draw skyla quite often with that and it's really handy
3 virizion EX
4 genesect EX
1 victini EX
1 mewtwo (maybe, idk)
2 shadow triad
2 tool scrapper
4 HTL/catcher (undecided)
4 colress machine
3 ultra ball
3 plasma badge
2 sky arrow
Victini is 110. Bouf can kill it for you. If Lugia is only for Victini then why play it at all? Deoxys still only lets you 2hko everything and the deck already does that, you are better off using Bouf for this again. Virizion hits for 50, retreats into Bouffalant for free with SAB and it hits for 120, 50+120=170 and it only needed 2 pokemon in play to happen.
If anything is hit in the active by this deck, it will be KOed the following turn if it remains there.
Deoxys are as much a liability as lugia because you only do a 60 emerald if you badges stay intact and the Deoxys don't have the flexibility of attacking themselves. You play no blends. Even without Skyarrow, you can be catcher stalled. I would figure more consistency because you don't play something that stays in play like floats or Skyarrow.
lugia can take 3 prizes and it also does 120 so its the same damage but 3 prizes. And have you tested the plasma matchup? if so Deoxys'extra 10 helps so much against kyurems.
EDIT: (this is directly from my article which pretty much sums up all the reasons i play lugia)
Now I know what you are thinking Why in the world do you have Lugia in this deck? The main reason I have Lugia is because it is a good tech against victini EX. Now lots of people would argue that Bouffalant DRX is better being able to also one-shot Victini EX and all of you are entitled to your opinions here is why I think Lugia fits in better with this deck. First of all Lugia EX is a plasma Pokemon and is capable of pulling off plasma gale as soon as it is benched. Another thing is that Lugia has 180 hit points and does not get one-shoted as easily. Also by knocking out your opponents Pokemon you gain an extra prize card. Lastly It's attack always does 120 damage.
Just a random idea not that tested yet but what do you guys think of playing 3-4 Deoxys in this. The idea is to get a field of 2 genesect 1 virizion or vice versa with 3 deoxys to hit those magic numbers on 180 ex since virizion will be hitting for 50 or more if you decide to play plasma badge letting the genesect come in and hopefully get the knockout for 130 and to make another way of one shotting kyurems without G Booster. Another thing to note is that with this setup if you're genesect gets knocked out and you have to set up another with virizion the emerald blade isn't as much of a waste of a turn setting up a genesect for next turn you're setting up another ko for next turn not needing G Booster. The first draft build I have plays plasma balls with ultra balls to make this set up a little bit more realistic than just relying on ultra balls alone.
There is kind of a risk of getting ohko'd by absol if you just spam the bench with to many pokemon, and that is the one thing I really like about this deck, is it doesn't need a large bench to deal heavy dmg, I personally think HTL + virbank does a better job then deoxys does, in a mirror match or a deck that techs virizion, no, but that still really helps in hitting the magic numbers more efficiently w/o having to rely on G-booster or a large bench which could lose you an EX against absol.
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