Tier 1 Virizion EX, Genesect EX

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by Serperior, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    something that you also have to realize is that you have to play down a baby balloon which basically tells your opponent, "Hey! I run balloon, I run balloon, I run ballon!!!" They will obviously catcher KO it before you can get it setup. And even if you can get multiple going it is very easy for them to KO you. And along with that, balloon does not do well against decks like Kyurem/Deoxy/Keldeo which runs very few special energies. Overall I would say that the card is completely pointless and the space can be used for many other useful cards.
  2. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Theorymon, theorymon, and theorymon.
  3. Drench

    Drench Active Member

    True that. So tired of people pointing out situations where you need ideal hands to take care of a threat, etc.

    Because you know, we all always have exactly what we need every turn.
  4. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    You do realize there's 2 Balloons that counter Plasma right? Not just Special Energy.

    I personally like Balloons in this deck and I've also been fooling around with Mewtwo EX.
  5. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    the fact that you are having to place down the baby balloon clearly tells your opponent that you are running it and they will clearly target it. That is not theorymon[DOUBLEPOST=1377398459][/DOUBLEPOST]
    I do realize that there are 2 different balloons, but neither add much to the deck. Your opponent will clearly see what you are playing and will focus on it, just like a darkrai will focus on taking down Kyruem's in TDK.
  6. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Why not? Drifblim should be run in at least a 2-2 line and to KO it you need 4 Deoxys and a Catcher with a Kyurem with 2 Energy or a Lugia/Thundurus with 4 Energy. With all these situations, you're implying Turn 2 on, which normally means the Genesect player will have a Genesect attacking next turn, so I have to ask, would the Plasma player normally be in a position to go after the 1-prize Drifloon and take a 100/20 the next turn? Also, with Drifblim you run 2+ Enhanced Hammer. So, if we're going to play the theorymon game, here's my case.[DOUBLEPOST=1377398866][/DOUBLEPOST]The point is, simply saying Drifblim is a 100% dead line and wasted spots because the Plasma player will go after it and KO it before it evolves 100% of the time is, in fact, theorymon.
  7. infernaperocks

    infernaperocks A Proud Member Of Team Rouge!

    even though it is a theorymon balloons are worthless against other decks therefor should only be included if your metagame is heavy plasma.
  8. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    This deck already basically autolosses Blastoise, you can't tech anything to beat Darkrai build, so you're left with Plasma and the mirror. Genesect runs 4 Plasma Energy and Drifblim DRX helps your trade against it really well, especially lategame if they're outspeeding you. Plasma will be the most played deck and I see no reason why you wouldn't tech against it with this deck, that loses that matchup without at least a few Enhanced Hammer.
  9. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    lol you are now talking about theorymon. You challenge my ideas and call them theorymon and then use theorymon yourself to counter me xD I am saying that the space that you use for drifblim is less useful than many other cards you could use. Its like having pluspower in darkrai; it can allow you to KO 180 HP EX's, but you could use that space for enhanced hammers or more catchers/lasers. You can use drifblim, but it is not the most effective use of the space
  10. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    And no, a 2-2 line and 2 Enhanced Hammer is not comparable to an item that adds 10 damage to an attack that is unnecessary in the deck it is named with. Genesect is one of the least consistent decks I have ever played and it needs a low-energy backup attacker to win the Plasma matchup, which can OHKO even easier than it could last format. With this deck getting 2 Genesects per game max and with Genesects being extremely hard to stream, I don't see how people are making it work without a backup attacker.
  11. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    lol pluspower was actually not bad in darkrai. It allowed you to go from hitting a max of 140 to a max of 150 or 160. This allowed you to one shot almost any EX after a night spear on the bench. And why I bring it up is that it could be used as a tech, but it was overshadowed but many other cards, just like drifblim is.
  12. JR_nathan

    JR_nathan Mr.3 Rings Himself

    Here's the thing; they aren't. No one is going to make this deck good just by adding in 1-2 pokemon and/or thier evolution lines.

    However, that doesn't mean they can't improve certain matchups. VirGen's way of doing this is balloons and hammers. Does it work?

    Heck yeah. It doesn't matter if DK or TDK, these guys will always have an advantage against TDK becuase it mainly runs Plasma Pokemon that use multiple Special Energies.

    So, I hope we've cleared up the issue of balloons, becuase I want to move on to another subject.

    What other options are left for VirGen when you remove balloons? Are there any other cards that could make certain macthups just as favorable as balloons did with TDK? I guess I'm asking if there is anything left, really, for VirGen besides just straight Genesect? (Ideas welcome, but only if supported by testing and not theorymon).
  13. WuBMaYNE

    WuBMaYNE You Need More Minerals

    What I want to know is everyone's opinion on Colress Machine in this deck? Assuming you're not running Plasma Badge how many Colress Machine should this deck run? 4,3,2,1 or none?
  14. infernaperocks

    infernaperocks A Proud Member Of Team Rouge!

    at least 3 seeing as it still is a form of acceleration.
  15. chepoke

    chepoke Member

    deoxys imo. 4 deoxys (2-3 benched) lets you hit magic numbers. the high deoxys count lets u play like darkrai, taking crucial double ko's with the bench damage, or surprise ohko's with a few cards (darkrai drops claw and laser to ohko kyurem, genesect drops deoxys to ohko kyurem)

    10 pokemon
    3 genesect ex
    3 virizion ex
    4 deoxys ex

    14 supporters
    4 juniper
    4 skyla
    3 N
    2 colress
    1 shadow triad

    21 items
    4 catcher
    3 plasma ball
    2 ultra ball
    3 plasma badge
    3 colress machine
    4 switch
    1 super rod
    1 g booster

    2 stadiums
    2 sky arrow bridge

    13 energy
    9 grass
    4 plasma

    pretty straight forward, no techs in my 1st draft list. tool scrapper and a non ex attacker may be needed. some prism or psychic energy to let deoxys attack may also be worthwhile.
    ideal field is 3 deoxys, 2 genesect and 1 virizion. 3 deoxys lets u hit 130, koing kyurems. plasma badge a on virizion and 2 deoxys out lets you 2hko kyurem while powering up 2 genesects. also helps deal with sableye and the basics of evolution lines easier.
    the maths on ex's is much better with deoxys as well. emerald slash for 50-70, cannon for 110-130 for the ko. late game u can snipe a 170 hp ex twice, then cannon for 130 with 3 deoxys out for the ko.
    only 1 shadow triad, and in 20+ games with the above list I have yet to use it effectively. I am finding g booster to be the last attack of the game, so shadow triad is only useful if you discard it early. anyone else finding g boost being used mainly as the finishing attack? I have used g boost twice in a row once in 20+ games. then again my list is not designed to chain g boosters.
    absol can be a problem but you should be able to return ohko it with a genesect before it does too much damage. only 4 benched pokemon makes the ohko much harder for absol as well.
    Jovis likes this.
  16. Slowbro

    Slowbro is excited for next season

    I'm confused. Are you solely talking about TDK, or are you talking about just Deoxys/Kyurem, which doesn't use very many special energy?
  17. yoyos

    yoyos delicious hot potatos

    Edit: whatever, it's clear to me that people are just basing the success of a deck based upon it's stats, and not by how you would play to effectively counter it. Because TDK or DK has lots of ways to take down the balloons (DK more so) regardless of the words on the card.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2013
    Alastair and onlyinAMERICA like this.
  18. SoldiersSpirit

    SoldiersSpirit I will defend my Kingdom.

    You guys have yet to mention the upside of the virizion player if the balloons get catchered ko'd, another turn to get another attacker powered up. You guys can think what you want but its a pick your posoin kind of deck ;)

    Other matchups must be horrible? That's so dumb to say, I haven't had any problems against any deck and count"ess estig, once again doesn't really matter till it sees tourny play but ultra ball does discard 2 cards does it not? Why would a smart player not know what he's up against and adjust? Discard fodder ftw because this deck doesnt really have many cards to get rid of.

    Don't make one sided arguments please try to think all scenarios though before you defend your stance and not hype your aide of it up way too much.

    TDK matchup using special energy, near autowin. Other matchups? You now have the perfect discard fodder and the rest of your deck is at your disposal ;)
  19. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    'Perfect discard fodder' is never a valid defence for including a card (except for Exeggcute). All cards are equally good at being thrown in the discard pile (again, except for Exeggcute). The question is: how good is it when you don't discard it?
    StrongRhino, Serperior and JR_nathan like this.
  20. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    Swinging a matchup against the arguable BDIF and definite most played deck is good. But alas, like people have said, it's not worth the space since the Plasma player will go after it and KO it in the 1 turn they have before you evolve it no matter what.