Discussion in 'Pokemon TCG News & Gossip' started by Googleplex, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. HighShroomish

    HighShroomish Wreck-It Ralts

    Well, they have made three Charizard EX's...
  2. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    I never claimed that "should" equals "will"; in fact I spent a lot of words emphasizing that it did not. I think I made a mistake, but its not the one you are talking about. Also we have two different versions of Black Kyurem EX, White Kyurem EX, and Kyurem EX.

    See, now here is where I was mistaken; I thought that it was also a regular set card. Simple mistake, major ramifications. However now you're missing something. First it is not guaranteed that they won't release a card without the support necessary to play it; in recent years they've shied away from it, making believe it is a good point, but it isn't "certain". They don't have to create a new one to reprint the existing one; the creation of a second one (Garchomp seems to be very popular) is possible, reprinting the existing one in a set is possible, or just releasing a M Garchomp EX without Garchomp EX in the set is possible. Likely? No, not likely; as stated I thought that the promo was also a card being released in a set. I am out of time to verify, but at this point I am taking your word for it that I was wrong about it. ;)
  3. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    I don't think we can really expect anything from PCL/TPCI. They also made Skarmory EX and Emolga EX instead of legendary pokemon as 2 EXs in one set. (I'm not counting Excadrill EX and Chandelure EX because those are good/commonly used mons in the game with cool designs)
    8bitdonut and HighShroomish like this.
  4. 8bitdonut

    8bitdonut The dough-nuttiest

    ^This *Rages about probably never seeing the Regi-EX line completed...stares at broken collection*
    HighShroomish and Gelato like this.
  5. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    ...and my point was in part that this was avoidable if they had "really" wanted to without radically altering how things actually played out; releasing some more Pokémon-EX as promos (that weren't reprints of in set cards)... actually that leads to my second suggestion; how many in-set Pokémon-EX did we receive that were indeed "alternate art" promos in Japan of Pokémon-EX we had already received in a set.

    I like the tins that tend to have popular (and good) Pokémon-EX; those aren't really an issue. Hard to believe some other arbitrary promo (in Japan) couldn't have been replaced with a Regice EX or Regirock EX, ya know?
  6. MetalArmedAngel

    MetalArmedAngel My lovely Luka ♥♥

    Skarmory isn't that bad in singles, and he looks like a beast
    Emolga? What's that, something to eat?
  7. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Guys, I don't think that Pokemon considers itself to be bound by an unbreakable set of rules when it comes to these things. Why should they?

    All the EXs were Legendaries, so we assumed that was the rule. Then we got Excadrill and Chandelure. Why those Pokemon? Who knows? Perhaps one of the designers' kids really liked them. Perhaps they had some suitable artwork to hand. We're never going to know and anything we say is just speculation.

    I guess it's human nature to look for patterns and logic in these things, but what you end up with are your rules, not Pokemon's.
    Gelato likes this.
  8. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Got to present a slightly different take to your argument.

    You are 100% correct; we cannot know Pokémon's internal guidelines or rules for card or set design. We most definitely can analyze what they release and try to get an adequate "framework". The big thing to remember is that we are dealing with the decisions of a company... not the laws of Nature and Nature's God. They are not immutable, and while it is entirely possible that this entire time it was mere "coincidence" that only "Legendary" Pokémon were getting the Pokémon-EX treatment until the very end of the BW-era, the solution that best matches the evidence is that at one time the guideline was "Only make Legendary Pokémon into Pokémon-EX!" until something changed their minds... such as a mandate they incorporate the "new video game mechanics" into the TCG.

    TL;DR: When you look for patterns in the Pokémon TCG, you can find "probable" rules but they are neither "your own rules", just "possible" or "probable" guidelines the games' designers follow. If they were "my rules", for good or ill the game would be far, far different baby_mario. XD Apologies if this is basically what you were saying and I just didn't get your point. >.>
  9. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Well, my point is that we can look for patterns, and a lot of the time we can make assumptions that are reasonable and mostly turn out to be correct.

    But they aren't set in stone. Pokemon can and will break these rules for reasons we can only guess at. I see no obvious reason why Excadrill, Chandelure, Skarmory, and Emolga got an EX card. The first three are good VGC Pokemon, but there are other ones that are better and more widely used (Amoongus, T-tar, Conkeldurr, Rotom, etc), while Emolga is useless in VGC so that line of thought doesn't really pan out.
  10. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member


    I would consider that they may be "fan favorites", intended to fill a niché, or a combination of the two. I am married to none of these; they are "guesses", not even a good hypothesis let alone theory. Oh, and by "fan favorites", that would also include if the "fans" either worked or were related to "important" TPC people so that they were chosen over the best Pokémon ever, [insert your favorite].

    For me, that would be Snorlax. ;)
  11. Salamencetrainer34

    Salamencetrainer34 An ogre-achiever

    I think they had non-legend EXs in LTR as a little sign of what is to come in XY, which is mixing together non legends and legends as EXs. I am all ok with this idea.

    Now XY been released, what decks are doing well? Any news on greninja?
  12. JR_nathan

    JR_nathan Mr.3 Rings Himself

    I think it's safe to say that Greninja ain't doing much these days.
  13. GreenPepper

    GreenPepper Badly addicted to League of Legends

    The only new deck I've seen so far is Aromatisse, and I lost two games against it with Plasma. It seems pretty good so far.
  14. InfinityMinusOne

    InfinityMinusOne Has a tendency to exist

    Which version? Straight Fairy, Toolbox, or what?
  15. GreenPepper

    GreenPepper Badly addicted to League of Legends

    Toolbox. Our league found out toolbox is better because you can tech for everything and the pure power of Yveltal EX is easily abused. Now I just need to convince everyone that Fairy Garden is better than Darkrai...
  16. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Really? Pity. I am mistaken often enough, but between Professor's Letter and Superior Energy Retrieval, it seemed like it had what it needed. I suppose its because you really need three or four copies in play for the damage to really start piling up.
  17. Ziggmiceter

    Ziggmiceter Ultimate 6P tournament procrastinator

    In toolbox Darkrai is better than Fairy Garden.[DOUBLEPOST=1392571761][/DOUBLEPOST]
    It needs something more. I don't know exactly what, but it needs something to push it up, as it gets rushed by a lot of the format.
  18. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    Since I just can't play test anymore (long story), I can only offer my Theorymon: I had planned on using the Outrage Dragons as meatshields/simple attackers alongside Greninja. This would reduce the burden of "setting up" a little. Throw in a Safeguard Pokémon and perhaps Latias EX (and of course Silver Mirror). I wouldn't expect an easy win, but if you can get the set up to be reliable and effective it would seem like a legit strategy. Yes, the bold text is a very big "if". XD
  19. JR_nathan

    JR_nathan Mr.3 Rings Himself

    It needs multiple energy attachments per turn.
  20. Otaku

    Otaku Well-Known Member

    What does?

    Water Shuriken, the Ability on Greninja (XY 41/146), requires you discard a (W) Energy from hand; no extra Energy attachments required. As for my own thoughts on how to play it, I had planned on throwing up the Pokémon that have Outrage for (CC) (the original Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyruem, plus Kyurem EX from PLB) to try and soak a hit, or alternatively a Pokémon with Safeguard (if facing a Pokémon-EX), Latias EX (if being attacked by something with an Ability), or anything that can make use of Silver Mirror if facing a Plasma deck.

    I didn't intend on trying to attack with most of those by powering something up in a single turn; those that can hide behind effects will... the Outrage Dragons are there purely to use Outrage. I didn't think I was stretching resources that thin to include three or four Double Colorless Energy to slap down onto them after they had survived an attack (if they survived). Keep in mind my earlier statements; if one can set up three or four Greninja (and also use their Abilities each turn), even if your opponent is taking a Prize every turn you can keep up without attacking, possibly pull ahead. 9 damage counters alone means that over two turns, a Pokémon-EX dies. If you get that fourth Greninja out and keep from losing the others, without attacking you can 2HKO Pokémon-EX while softening up something else. Realistically you will need to be attacking at least some of the time, of course.

    Again, I understand that this doesn't appear to be working, but where does it need multiple Energy attachments per turn?