Tier 3 Zebstrika NXD, Garbodor DRX

Discussion in 'Competitive Deck Discussion' started by SamSoldier, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. jeffrey3421

    jeffrey3421 Swarm Wannabe

    Zebstrika can do damage with laser, which will knock out Genesect PLB and Tropius PLB coming back into the Zebstrika player's turn. So, effectively a OHKO.

    Secondly, Zebstrikas can be streamed with much less effort than you make out. Anyway, I don't see many VirGen players choosing Genesect over Tropius or Bouffalant. Also, they wouldn't play more than two-three non-plasma attackers. And I don't think anybody but you will be playing Kyurem EX NXD.
    Honestly, I don't think you are seeing the full power of an item/ability lock combined. It can easily outspeed Genesect with a T2 Zebstrika/Garbodor and completely lock them into place. Having a few non-plasma attacker does not mean you automatically win the matchup. It's not very easy to search them out/stream them when you are under an item lock.

    EDIT: I also find your statement "Blastoise beats this" from above very naive. You offer no reasoning/justification for this statement. If you can get out a Zebstrika before they get a Blastoise, they can't Rare Candy into it and are stuck manually attaching.
    SamSoldier likes this.
  2. Kalyst

    Kalyst New Member

    Very, very few people in the early competitions are going to want to play "wild" variants/techs to secure those first few points to get a leg up in the season. They'll be running more solid lists with a few card choice changes between them. Trust me I've tried doing weird and whacked techs in "standard" lists and more often than not I lost my games because my opponents would use that knowledge to draw correct assumptions on what I would and wouldn't have (i.e. running Cress and Dragon Vault Kyurem in Darkrai/Hydra last season tipped them off to no Mewtwo or Meloetta or Sigi so their play changed)

    Virizion is stuck manual attaching for 2 turns on a T2/3 Zeb/Garbo lock and they will no longer be able to attach Plasma Badges (if they run it) for the Colress attach nor have access to G-Booster attach and their Ability will no longer block LazerBank. By the time they keep trying to swing with Virizion to start getting grass energies on Genesect, you already should have at least 2 more Zebs waiting in the wings. And let's not forget you are giving up one prize for 2.

    Even if they manged to get a t2/t3 Blastoise if you hit garbo by this turn and they had no energy attachments to make with his ability on the turn they aren't locked, not only are stuck manual attaching every turn to get a OHKO with Keldeo, but now you can slow the game down to your pace and catcher around, given that Keldeo can no longer Rush In nor attach Float Stones to free retreat should they manage to become active. And their Switches/Escape ropes become dead and unable to be used (along with Max Potion tech's etc etc) You know...item lock? (obviously this isn't directed at you jeff)

    Against a Landy version of Garbo...well, you might just have to catcher around or find a way to shut him down or keep him from coming into play, maybe pray on some lazer flips, I don't know. There's ways to get around him (and there's always if they run it only as a tech, such as in Plasma or in unconventional lists, well, there's always the chance of it being prized)
    jeffrey3421 likes this.
  3. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    Sorry if I did not clarify.

    Blastoise beats this because if it gets out before you lock, you lose. They drop energy and OHKO everything you own. If they don't they manually attach to Keldeo and KO you. At that point all you have is catcher stall. When I say something beats this, I am stating that it is better than a 50% matchup. Which I believe it is.

    I wont spend time defending VirGen as I honestly don't think it is a good deck. But Virizion EX just beats your Zebra in a 2HKO.

    And as for Kalyst's comment about Landorus EX versions of Garbodor. You just lose. Save for all of them being prized you just lose to Landorus EX. Yes there are off games where you hit your small percentage of winning (all Lando's prized, opponent is Supporter screwed etc). This is one I wont let up off of, I have played vs this about 5-6 times (I know its a small sample) and have yet to lose a game.

    My main point is Item lock is not as dangerous in this format. It can be annoying and it can steal some wins that it normally wouldn't get, but it is beyond unstoppable (outside of the standard TDK matchup).
    jeffrey3421 likes this.
  4. galldrin

    galldrin Poke-dad

    So something I am wanting to test out is a couple tech attackers to help certain matchups, or when your opponent can attach thru the item lock. What I am thinking are the enrage dragons, specifically reshiram nxd and kyurem ex plb. I have tried working with bouffalant, and he hits awesome hard but also loses his bouffer ability which makes him a bit more squishy. Plus commuting the 2 turns attaching wastes time. The outragers get a dce and do work.
  5. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    I would go with Kyurem EX. Reshiram is easily OHKO which does nothing for your enrage.
  6. galldrin

    galldrin Poke-dad

    reshiram is specifically for the virizion match up., but yes I do like kyurem ex's high health pool, not to mention his matchup vs landorus.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  7. Slowbro

    Slowbro is excited for next season

    OK, haha.
  8. public_toilet

    public_toilet Seriously Likeable here guys, Just sayin.

    I've actually put in Liepard for late game hand disruption after I use Ghetsis.
  9. mattynate

    mattynate That's not rasslin'!!

    I really love this deck idea but landorus scares the hell outta me haha, plasma is the most played deck atm and big ol lando slots pretty nicely in
  10. blazechomp1

    blazechomp1 Active Member

    which landorus are u talking about? The plasma one, or the hammerhead one?
  11. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    There is a plasma Landorus?
  12. TylerLindsey

    TylerLindsey Road to DC.

    There is not. He more than likely thinking about Tornadus, who has a regular EX and a Plasma counterpart.

    If Zebstrika wants to become a lasting force in the format, it needs a way to deal with the Landorus EX issue; a single Landorus EX does far too much work against the strategy. If Plasma becomes concerned about Zebstrika/Mirror lock, they just have to squeeze in a single Landorus EX and their percentage points improve drastically.

    An alternative would be to play Dragonite instead, although some restructuring will likely have to be done to improve the consistency (Rare Candy, DCE, Dragonite on T2 is a tall order).
  13. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    Dragonite weakens this deck to the point of unplayable vs most decks, that is a lot of cards you give up for the same effect. You would be better off sticking a Tornadus EX or something resistant and give up the item lock until you deal with the Landorus EX then go back into that strat. At least that way you have a way of dealing with it. If you aren't up against a plasma Pokemon then you don't care if your mirror is working or not.

    The other option would be to include some Eviolite. As a Landorus EX player myself. This card just kills us, as we rely on 30 damage per turn, (60 in this case). Minimizing that to 10 (40 in this case) is significantly better, giving you an extra turn to put on some damage. This also buys you additional tools for Garbodor (even though the effect wont work on him)

    In either case you are only adding 1-2 cards in place of a whole line of cards/candy for dragonite.

    But as it was said before, I don't think plasma will break up its consistency for a Landorus EX. Mainly because the meta SHOULD filter this matchup out. So they would chalk it up to acceptable losses.
  14. TylerLindsey

    TylerLindsey Road to DC.

    While I definitely agree that Dragonite is less consistent compared to Zebstrika, if Plasma decks end up adopting that lone Landorus EX, players loyal to the trainer-lock strategies may have to switch to Dragonite just to keep the matchup in their favor; I could be missing something, but I haven't found an optimal way for Zebstrika to deal with Landorus EX yet (and believe me, I've tried some wacky stuff*).

    The problem with having a tech-attacker in a Disconnect/Deafen deck is if you are deviating from your plan of using the trainer-lock attack every turn, you are playing a vastly inferior deck, and your opponent will likely just outrace you. Even a single turn where the trainer-lock lets up swings the match hugely in their favor, enough to where I don't think you can justify attacking with anything else.

    Unfortunately, Eviolite won't work on Zebstrika, being a Stage 1. The (much worse) alternative to Eviolite for Stage 1/Stage 2 Pokemon sadly doesn't change Landorus EX's clock (Giant Cape), so that really isn't an option either.

    I hear you, but for what it's worth, there are ways for Dragonite to increase its consistency to an acceptable level. Le Parfum Roserade is a very useful card for decks that require tall orders as early as turn two, but it occupies the space where Garbodor resides. Whether or not people are willing to sacrifice Garbodor is a different story, but the consistency cards are there.

    *Running 3-4 Grass Energy as your off energy, alongside a lone Virizion EX and 2-3 Long-Distance Hypnosis Munna. Every turn you will flip 2-3 coins to put your opponent to sleep, with you not being able to be put to sleep yourself due to Virizion EX's Verdant Wind. Your opponent should miss a fair amount of attacks over the course of the game due to this effect.
  15. RJCarrot

    RJCarrot Poke Breeder Extrodinare.

    Right. I always forget that cause I play basics only decks for the most part.

    That is a LOT of work to get a sleep check 25% of the time.
  16. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Dragonite or Zebstrika?

    No contest


  17. galldrin

    galldrin Poke-dad

    I have thought about dragonite too, but the only way I see fitting him in is to drop lasers altogether. Does anyone else have a list that stays consistent, uses dragonite, AND keeps laserbank?

    I like the idea of tornadus ex DEX and I still lake kyurem ex PLB for his typing against landorus and his heavy ball searchability.

    Edit: and there IS a plasma landorus non-ex. It was sold as a promo card in some weird plasma box set similar to the one that had.the plasma darkrai (again, non ex)
  18. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    There has never been a successful/consistent Stage 2 deck that has been able to run LaserBank. I've seen one or two Lasers teched into Hydreigon before, but there simply is not room for the full 5-6 card Laserbank. And that was before we had Silver Mirror, asking for even more deckspace.
  19. galldrin

    galldrin Poke-dad

    Gotcha. So in your opinion do you feel the higher hp pool of dragonite is more important than the slightly faster setup and inclusion of laserbank with zebstrika?

    I like that a bangle on a dragonite is a 2hko on any ex and a 1hko on BKEX. I'm gonna miss laserbank tho.
  20. baby_mario

    baby_mario Doesn't even care

    Yeah I like Dragonite. You trade off a scarier opening couple of turns for something that performs a lot better mid-late game and doesn't care about Fighting techs.